Can We Fix Politics Through Better Conversations? With Artie Martello

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:18
Unknown
They'd have to start paying attention to the working class and not just saying that they're paying attention to working class. Because if you look at how Kamala did her rallies, it's billionaires and the elites performing at these rallies, and she's not going on to Normal People podcast. She's going on to elitist podcasts. And basically, in Clinton's years, I think that's when the relationship between the Democratic Party and Hollywood started to really close.

00:00:23:20 - 00:00:49:19
Unknown
And I think Obama did that even more. I mean, he's a producer director now, and we're obsessed with celebrity in the U.S. and I think it's no different for politicians. And when they get in those circles, I think if you're really cool when you're hanging out with Jay-Z, Beyoncé, when you're talking to these people and befriending these people, you feel cool and, I think the problem is our politicians need to be in touch with the common man, not just, you know, rich people.

00:00:49:21 - 00:00:59:23
Unknown
And we have very different viewpoints on many things, but a lot of these issues are American issues. They're not Republican or Democrat issues.

00:01:00:01 - 00:01:20:23
Unknown
Welcome back to Elevated Thoughts. Today we have a fun episode with our friend and host of the thoughtfully mindless podcast, Artie Martello. Both Mike and I recently had the opportunity to be guests on Artie's podcast, thoughtfully, mindless and separately. And actually, it was pretty cool. Mike and I touched base to finally get to be the guests for once, you know, sit on the other side of the desk.

00:01:21:01 - 00:01:40:03
Unknown
So now, of course, Artie, we're returning that pleasure to you, our honored guest today. How are you, my friend? I do well, thank you for having me. I have a lot of respect for you guys. The show. And it was really cool to interview both of you. You're the. You're the first duo I've ever interviewed or like, two people who run a podcast together interviewing both of them.

00:01:40:03 - 00:01:55:19
Unknown
So really cool. Very cool man. Well, I was blown away. I remember when you asked me to come on, I was kind of saying, oh my gosh, I noticed you do two plus hour shows and I don't know if I'm that interesting, but it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I appreciate your words and I appreciate you having us on because it was fun.

00:01:56:01 - 00:02:21:23
Unknown
And, you know, that's kind of one of the things that we talked about on our episode. And when I listened to mix, it was the the way to have productive discourse, which is the reason we started this show. Right. And that's what we've proved over. I think you're now episode 43 with us, Artie. And that we can remain friends and we can talk about tough issues, but, we can still tackle them and try to understand them more fully without going down each other's throats.

00:02:21:23 - 00:02:48:15
Unknown
So when we talk about thoughtfully mindless podcast, what made you start something like that? Was it similar? Was it intriguing or tell us a little bit about it first? Maybe? Yeah, I, I honestly just saw a very divided world in country. So I was like, I was thinking about it for a long time. I actually started it in 2020, ran for ten episodes and then kind of closed up shop because just things got in the way, you know?

00:02:48:17 - 00:03:17:01
Unknown
I, I ran into some boss over the years, in 20, whenever Covid happened in 2020, at the end of 2020, I got fired from Cox Automotive for refusing to take the vaccine. And I watched all my coworkers, especially coworkers who were, single mothers, kind of get forced into that position that they had to take the vaccine and stuff like that.

00:03:17:03 - 00:03:39:00
Unknown
And I looked around after that and I was like, man, there's a lot of people that aren't willing to speak their mind and go against the authority, like if you're dangling their job in front of them and stuff like that. And I was like, maybe, maybe I should use the fact that I am willing to stand up and just speak my mind and just do that.

00:03:39:00 - 00:03:58:12
Unknown
And it's been a process. I'm not always comfortable with it. I don't love pissing people off, and I try not to, but, you know, I do want to speak my mind and I want to have, useful conversations because I figure I don't know everything. I know you guys are the same way. Like, you're humble in, your knowledge.

00:03:58:12 - 00:04:23:16
Unknown
So it's like, if you don't know any everything, then why not talk to people who might be able to enlighten you a little bit? And if maybe their ideas aren't right, but maybe they have strong arguments against what you believe and what you you hold dear. And you can, you know, sharpen your arguments and use those conversations to strengthen your points and just understand the world better.

00:04:23:18 - 00:04:38:11
Unknown
One of the things we talked about a lot was how Mike and I have both kind of softened our political leanings since we started it. Right. And you you I didn't know, actually, that you'd lost your job. And as a kind of a catalyst all around the same time with the starting of the podcast. Can may I use a word radicalization?

00:04:38:11 - 00:04:57:15
Unknown
Is that part of maybe what happened? Because I know maybe you could talk a little bit about your political show, a little bit about your political background. Right. Because you must be some hardcore right winger if you're refusing the vaccine. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I was I'm at the Capitol January 6th, you know, rioting and breaking in and stuff like that.

00:04:57:17 - 00:05:35:06
Unknown
No, I, I am politically homeless. I guess more or less. I have gone all over the map at times in my life. I've been a little bit more conservative at times. I've been more liberal, and more often than not it's quite more liberal. My personality is very liberal. I'm, creative person. If you listen to like Jordan Peterson, people high and openness tend to be liberal, and I'm very high in openness and, I like that and it and it helps me navigate the world like, well, I just enjoy exploring things.

00:05:35:06 - 00:06:07:04
Unknown
And, you know, the, the view of conservatives is they can be a little rigid with their, with their ideas and not want to change. And I'm like, I'm all for change if it's positive change. So yeah, I, I've gone all over the map. I was a Bernie Bernie Sanders supporter in 2016. I voted for Jill Stein because after I was watching things happen, and when I saw Bernie Sanders get screwed over by the Democratic Party, specifically Hillary Clinton, I just couldn't back that up.

00:06:07:04 - 00:06:30:05
Unknown
I couldn't just swallow that and be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna vote for her. Even though she stabbed the person in the back who I actually thought would be good for the country. And my opinion on Bernie has changed over the years, too. But I didn't vote for, Trump or Hillary Clinton. In 2016. I started opening up my eyes a little bit, being a little bit more receptive.

00:06:30:05 - 00:06:56:04
Unknown
I did vote for Trump in 2020. I was like, kind of not into it, but I, I just felt like his first term got hampered a lot with a lot of stuff that wasn't legitimate. So I wanted to give him another chance. And then, I voted for him again in 2024. Just pragmatically, I like the coalition that he had around him and, still don't consider myself right wing.

00:06:56:05 - 00:07:19:17
Unknown
So have very, some liberal views. If I take the political compass test, I am center left and libertarian. I'm center left libertarian. I'm very anti-authoritarian. But yeah, pretty much in the middle with things. So I'm sure you have some personal experiences. There's the challenges of right of if you believe in this one thing, all of a sudden you get put into this bucket or a silo.

00:07:19:20 - 00:07:33:10
Unknown
So you must believe all these other things and, and they, you know, prejudge you right away. What are some personal issues you run with? Because, you know, our circle of friends is the same way. If you believe this one way on one issue, you must think way. You know, all the way out, you know, and all everything else.

00:07:33:10 - 00:07:51:20
Unknown
And I also just want to add to that the not only that is, I deal with a lot on the right as least a preconceived notions. Someone oh, you must think that or you must feel that way and it's unacceptable. It's not true. Almost ever. Yeah. I have, very liberal acquaintances and, I would game with some of them.

00:07:51:20 - 00:08:17:08
Unknown
And some of them. Yeah, some of them are very, very anti-Trump. And I'm, I'm not going to defend everything Trump says or does because he does and says a lot of things I disagree with. But if I offer any any kind of argument against any position that's anti-Trump, I'm a Trumper. And it's like, this is ridiculous. Like you have to be able to have a nuanced conversation without it being, oh, you're this or that.

00:08:17:08 - 00:08:38:07
Unknown
Like, can't we just be people having a discussion with I diverse views and we want to explore all those views without just, you know, I have to label you and put you in a box. And that's what labeling is. When you label somebody your labeling them so that you don't have to consider their position any more, you want to just put them in a box and say, I already know everything.

00:08:38:07 - 00:08:55:04
Unknown
I know they're liberal, I know everything I need to know they're conservative, right? That's what labels are for. It's very interesting. And I guess it comes down to what who you're around. Right. So it sounds like you have a lot of liberal friends. I think I probably, in real life, have more conservative friends, but I think everybody is more pragmatic.

00:08:55:04 - 00:09:18:06
Unknown
Probably people are allowed to have these conversations and, I, my my cousin Richard is the person who told me this phrase because I don't watch Destiny or do much gaming, but apparently, he feuds with that guy Hassan Nabi, and I'm messing up the names as well. But they coined the term a debate pervert, which is what, they called destiny, because he can go on any side of an issue and say, I'll debate that side.

00:09:18:10 - 00:09:43:01
Unknown
And in this kind of political sphere, that's what I almost feel like we can go on and talk about these issues, and why can't we philosophize and explore these kind of intricacies and nuances without being labeled like I, I could probably argue we interviewed, Brianna Wu who a trans woman and. Right. She was asking my perspective and I look back, I go, I didn't really give the right wing perspective at all.

00:09:43:01 - 00:10:04:16
Unknown
I gave my perspective. So am I right wing? I, I don't know. And to help me understand this, actually, because I know you've been talking with a lot of candidates and you mentioned Jill Stein. Congratulations. That would have been a really cool conversation. But you said the libertarian arm plays a role in your belief system, and I'm grappling with that myself to think, okay, I believe in individual liberties and freedom and all of this.

00:10:04:18 - 00:10:31:02
Unknown
Am I a libertarian? Maybe. Is there maybe something that I'm missing about libertarianism that isn't just everyone gets what they do, what they want? Is it very lawless or something? Well, when I say I'm libertarian, I mean small libertarian. Like, not not the party. Because a party is, it's going to devolve into like, human desires and what they what they want and what they, you know, we always mess everything up.

00:10:31:04 - 00:10:49:18
Unknown
But small libertarian like, I don't want to tell you what to do, and I don't want you to tell me what to do. I like and I want to respect each other, and I don't want to harm each other. We have to have some civility and laws and stuff like that. But yeah, I just I don't want to be told what to do.

00:10:49:18 - 00:11:14:04
Unknown
I don't want to tell people what to do. And I know people who are definitely more authoritarian who they're like, now put them in jail, throw them in jail, get rid of them. And it's like, I don't know, don't you want to know the facts before you just, you know, I think most political discourse, unfortunately, has, devolved into being right rather than, you know, or or winning the argument rather than, you know, truth seeking in any way.

00:11:14:06 - 00:11:28:18
Unknown
So I this is kind of a segue into the next thing I, you know, I, I really appreciate kind of your research process and, you know, you came up with very, very insightful questions. So it's kind of a two parter. I want to I was hoping you could peel back the layers of the onion a little bit and let us know what your research process is like.

00:11:28:23 - 00:11:43:15
Unknown
And also to it's very impressive because as you mentioned before, you know, we're the first do or you're injured. I don't know how I could do this alone. You know, Cooper and I, we have an excellent division of labor. What is it like running a show by yourself that that is a very, very impressive. And, I'm sure, a very difficult endeavor at times.

00:11:43:17 - 00:12:07:21
Unknown
Yeah. I want to just go back one second to what you were just saying. Made sure. Because, debate when people use the word debate, I try to avoid that word because I feel like that is setting people up for, right. Like, no expectations built in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, let's just have a conversation. Like, let's explore ideas because debate just set you up for a I need to prove I'm right and you're wrong.

00:12:07:21 - 00:12:28:09
Unknown
So yeah, my research process is scattered. Honestly, I use obsidian as a note taking app, and I'm not very efficient with it or anything like that. But if I'm if I'm interviewing somebody, I will. Or getting ready to interview somebody, I just put their name on there and then I'll start just writing notes down. I don't write questions down.

00:12:28:09 - 00:12:54:02
Unknown
I just write interesting things I come across. And like with you guys listening to your podcast or reading your tweets, whatever it might be, it's just like little things that catch my eye and I just make a note of those and I don't have the questions prepared, but it's like, you know, in the conversation, if if I'm not remembering where I want to go next, I just look over and I'm like, okay, like, I think this is interesting.

00:12:54:02 - 00:13:25:22
Unknown
Let's dive into that. So yeah, it's it's not too complex of, a research problem. Once I have the guests, I think the hardest part is actually finding, like researching and finding the guests, which I think you're great at it. I'm. I'm with you on that. Mike is the one that's great at that. And it's because he is all invested in these think tanks and in foreign policy circles where he sees all these names and these authors, I and I've been grateful for it because like, like in 2025 already I've finished two books and then I'm halfway through a third.

00:13:26:00 - 00:13:42:21
Unknown
So it does inspire a lot of, you know, growth in that way. But yeah, man, that's like hard. And I was actually joking with you already this week. So it feels like we have no one lined up. And then all of a sudden we have like 6 or 8 guests lined up. But you you what episode number you on?

00:13:42:23 - 00:14:00:16
Unknown
I think 71 is coming out this week, maybe. Yeah. So that's a lot. I mean, do you have a list running of how many people maybe are you waiting to reach out to? It's got to be dozens. I have a list of, like, 500 people. Oh, wow. That, not all of them I actually want to interview.

00:14:00:16 - 00:14:24:06
Unknown
It was just like I had an old Twitter that I. Then I got rid of, and I was following people, and I just put all those people on the list, and then, went through, my bookshelf and put all the authors that are living, that I could interview potentially on the list. And I have actually gotten a few people that I've, read their books before, which is really cool.

00:14:24:08 - 00:14:39:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a challenge when sometimes I'm looking at guests and especially when we're doing our 911 ERA one, you know, I start looking back, I'm like, all right, who were some of the policymakers, decision makers and government at that time? And then all of a sudden I start looking, I'm like, oh, some of these folks are some, I should say, nearly all of them.

00:14:39:02 - 00:14:57:17
Unknown
I'm like a lot of them are like 85, 90 years old. I'm like, they're well, retired. They're not coming on our podcast, unfortunately. So that is truly a challenge. You know, it's hard archiving history when it feels like it's ethereal. Right? It's like slipping through our fingers. Maybe it's just because time is moving so fast, but it's 2025, but it doesn't feel it, right?

00:14:57:19 - 00:15:18:09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I have interviewed somebody who's over 90 though. Oh wow. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. And I think another person I was like 80 George Gilder I think he's like 86 or 87 trying to think who our oldest has been. I don't know that we've gotten that up there yet. Let's not age them. I don't think they'd appreciate that.

00:15:18:11 - 00:15:36:12
Unknown
No, it's definitely been interesting. I mean, Artie, what was one of the ones that recently you've done that maybe has a cool story? I know you were telling us about, a friend that you knew from online who, or Twitter spaces who may be looking into some cases recently regarding the, the assassination of the United Health Care guy.

00:15:36:14 - 00:15:56:09
Unknown
Yeah, that's the interview I have coming out this Thursday or this week. It should be Thursday. His name is Brian O'shay, and it's the second time I interviewed an and really cool guy. And he does some really good research, and he's like, I wanted to talk to him originally about, like, potential terrorist attacks and stuff like that.

00:15:56:11 - 00:16:21:23
Unknown
And he's like, hey, I've been looking into Luigi Mangione case a bit. Can we talk about that? Mike yeah, that can be like the main thing we talk about. Send me your information. I'll. I'll read it. So he did like a four hour, I guess, podcast, like just a video, live stream where he was talking about it, and then he wrote an article or several articles, and there's just some stuff that just doesn't make sense to me.

00:16:22:01 - 00:16:35:00
Unknown
Didn't make sense to him. And. Yeah, I'd be happy to dive into that if you guys wanted to talk about it. Yeah. Give us don't give away the whole episode, but definitely give us a sneak peek. What's going on? I don't I think this one is cut and dry. I'm surprised to hear you say that. Right?

00:16:35:00 - 00:16:53:13
Unknown
Because there was, like, three other instances where I would say, oh, there's definitely questions of the Cybertruck in Las Vegas. And, yeah, there was another one where they plowed into a festival, but this one is like like I was there. He pulled the trigger. What's what's curious about that? Well, how do we know he was there if this is true, right.

00:16:53:17 - 00:17:12:00
Unknown
Yeah. So I guess we have an image that slightly matches them. I've. This is again, I haven't deeply dived into this I think. Wasn't he found with a weapon on him as well as a fake ID that matched somebody who had checked into a hospital nearby. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. So. And I'm not saying he's innocent because I have no idea.

00:17:12:00 - 00:17:39:02
Unknown
Maybe everything ends up checking out. But we know police can be corrupted. We know, prosecutors can get, like, they want to take somebody down like, once. Sure. Something like this. High profile. It's a stain on the DNA to, like, leave it open for a while. Like to not have any suspects or anything like that, I see. Well, the initial, the initial Bolo, the Crime Stoppers phones that went out.

00:17:39:02 - 00:18:03:00
Unknown
I noticed this whenever they first came out. I think December or whatever. And, there's two different people like I it's not one person. It there's a Starbucks photo where the alleged shooter was in Starbucks right before the shooting. It looks like that is the shooter. It's the guy wearing the cream or a light colored backpack, and he's got the green jacket on and stuff like that.

00:18:03:02 - 00:18:42:09
Unknown
But then what they did is they took another photo from, it was from the hostel that Luigi Mangione stayed in, and they have this picture of him. He's wearing a mask. There's a mask on all of these pictures. And then another one where, his mask is off. Actually, those look like Luigi Mangione. But if you look at that next to the other image, it's like the facial structure doesn't match and you don't see the eyebrows in the Starbucks photo, so it looks like it might I mean, it's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like it's just questionable whether it's him.

00:18:42:11 - 00:19:09:18
Unknown
They claim that he like. There's people saying there's a one man job, one man operation. And this is something that Brian has cast a lot of data on. He says there's almost a 0% chance that he was working alone, the shooter, because how do you like you have to do, Brian called The Path of Life or something like that, where you, like, you have to kind of stock the person, get a feel for what their habits are, where they're going to be, where they're going.

00:19:09:20 - 00:19:31:21
Unknown
And supposedly Luigi Mangione leaves his hostel, gets to where they get he's going to shoot Brian Thompson a few minutes before he shoots and has time to stop at a Starbucks. Even though he looks different in that picture. But he has time to stop at a Starbucks before shooting him and doing it in a very, proficient way.

00:19:31:23 - 00:19:53:18
Unknown
For somebody who doesn't have the training, which is weird, and you can see things in the video of like brake lights going on in a van right before he pulls the trigger, which is like, Brian saying, like, if I were running an operation like that, he didn't run, assassination missions or anything like that, but he's like, if I wanted to identify a person like, hey, this is the guy.

00:19:53:18 - 00:20:13:14
Unknown
If I hold the brakes on my car, like, it makes sense. So it seems unlikely that he was working alone, the shooter, and then. Yeah, supposedly he got caught with all this stuff 300 miles from where everything happened. That is weird, too. Well, I'm back to what he looks like. I hate looking at facial structures because I'm not good at it.

00:20:13:15 - 00:20:33:05
Unknown
And of course, photos and security cameras specifically. But I will say that the jacket that he committed the crime and was like a bomber jacket with nothing on the front. Yeah. And the photo of him with the mask off at the hostel, he's got chest pockets on the. Yeah. It's very it's a completely different jacket. So he either got all dressed up in the hood and the mask to then change his jacket or.

00:20:33:07 - 00:20:59:11
Unknown
I mean, listen, I posted on that very day to say, yeah, if I was going to go assassinate somebody, probably bring a change of clothes, guys. You know, maybe I change my clothes, but not maybe not to something almost identical. It feels like a little bit sophisticated now that you're starting to talk about it for him to, you know, a young, disaffected youth to be able to, you know, enact a high profile assassination like this, it does seem very questionable when this kid is smart.

00:20:59:15 - 00:21:21:00
Unknown
He's an he's a very intelligent person. And you're telling me the only way that I can believe he's 300 miles away with a backpack that has everything they need to pin this crime on him. Like the biggest crime that's happened in the last few weeks. Like the most public, publicly publicized crime that's happened in the last few weeks.

00:21:21:02 - 00:21:43:01
Unknown
The only way I could believe he would just have that is if he's living kind of like a nomadic lifestyle at the time where he's just taking everything with him. But it's like, no, he just had these four items his ID, the fake ID, this gun that he made, his manifesto and I don't know, it just it's.

00:21:43:01 - 00:22:04:00
Unknown
Yeah, it's tightly wrapped. Sure, sure. I could see that someone who's so smart to do all these things, why would he be walking around with all that evidence of the crime on him? Right. Yeah. But also, if you're going to if you're going to try to get caught and say, hey, here's my manifesto, right? This is my inspiration or whatever, then he I believe he pleaded not guilty, which is then again, like another question, which is what?

00:22:04:04 - 00:22:31:15
Unknown
Why? Yeah. Well and accomplices and you, you look at the scenario right now and it's very much like he's he's being prosecuted in the media like everyone is talking about him as if he is definitely the shooter. Even though we haven't really seen the evidence. We we somebody has, you know, released the supposed manifesto, but we really don't know the background of this.

00:22:31:15 - 00:22:51:01
Unknown
Like we don't know everything that's going on. So it is something to watch out for. Like, you know, do we want to be a country that convicts people before we've seen them be put on trial? I know we've do this every once in a while, but it's not the smartest thing in the world. You know, we we shouldn't we shouldn't convict in the court of public opinion.

00:22:51:01 - 00:23:11:08
Unknown
Right. Like that's what the court of justice is for. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's an interesting case. And let's see what happens. Who knows, maybe by the time it releases on Thursday, convincing evidence is out there and it's like, no, he's definitely the guy. And maybe it's irrelevant. I've been thinking about that. What if something happened over the coming days and all I look forward to the the deep dive episode.

00:23:11:12 - 00:23:27:23
Unknown
Either way, it sounds pretty interesting. I want to hear from Brian or Shane for sure. Yeah, yeah, ours is coming on Wednesday, so we'll put a link through your channel. But, well, I the other thing that was interesting is he didn't normally get charged with the assassination. He was charged with terroristic threats or terrorism. And my wife was asking me like, why?

00:23:27:23 - 00:23:46:16
Unknown
And so I looked into that. And why wouldn't a school shooter or just a random, you know, whomever get charged with something similar? And the answer is pretty telling. I mean, this guy went out and had his in his manifesto and with all of this other, media coverage. Right. And the firestorm was we need to do this to the CEOs.

00:23:46:16 - 00:24:04:06
Unknown
Right. So it was almost like a call to action for others, which is I get it, that would make sense. Whereas I think if you go and do a school shooting, you probably are looking up to other school shooters. I don't know that you're going there and saying everyone else needs to go do this now. It was kind of put, I guess, hey, you don't really determine that.

00:24:04:06 - 00:24:27:08
Unknown
It's the court of public opinion that determines what the aftermath would be. And, it was, though. I mean, hey, I've personally in my life now met like 4 or 5 people who were like, unflinchingly. I love that guy Louis. Look at what he did. This is amazing. Good for him. And, which is funny because those guys are also presuming him guilty.

00:24:27:10 - 00:24:53:07
Unknown
Right? All right. Yeah, a martyr in a sense, but, like, it's just very strange. It's just not a way to get things done. And those are the same people, though. That will tell you how violent, January 6th was. Right. And what a terrible display that was. So yeah, it just doesn't add up in my opinion. But then you have the examples of and I'm curious if you've heard about this already, the, Cybertruck in Las Vegas that blew up and did you catch what Sean Ryan, Green Beret podcaster, put out?

00:24:53:09 - 00:25:18:04
Unknown
That's another very unsubstantiated thing, but pretty cool because I think they confirm the email at least was real to the gentleman who whistle blew it, where it says, hey, my name is Matt Berg. It's like three days before this bombing. He doesn't mention that there's going to be a thought. He says, I know what these drones over in new Jersey are that we've heard about so, so, so much they're anti gravitational right.

00:25:18:04 - 00:25:37:10
Unknown
Shout out Ashton Forbes for learning that technology for us. And now I'm escaping. I've rented a car. And if I don't make it you know something's happened to me. And the what do you know two days later. But the weird thing in my mind is one, he was an explosives tech, but he built, like, the lowest possible technician, possible technic explosives.

00:25:37:10 - 00:25:59:17
Unknown
So it was like gas cans. That was it? Yeah. He purposely was a fan of Tesla and Cybertruck. He was flaunting the car to, I think, his ex-girlfriend or his ex-wife or something like that over text. So he kind of was aware that this wasn't going to be this big explosion. I think if it was. Yeah. And then the last thing was he was had a gunshot wound where he was probably taken out prior to the explosion.

00:25:59:20 - 00:26:27:20
Unknown
And what do you know, you have this self-driving car that could land itself anywhere, with a potential body in it to frame somebody. So everything I said, do you agree with that? Yeah, I mean, I, I watched this on Ryan episode. I didn't it doesn't seem like the guy wanted to kill anybody. Like, if you're if you know how to create explosives, then when you create an exploding explosion that is, like, very not bad.

00:26:28:01 - 00:26:43:16
Unknown
Like, it's not a bad, it's contained. Yeah. It was very tame by the, you know, comparison of what he could have really done with someone at that level of experience. Yeah. Like if you have that knowledge and you really want to do damage, we can do it. The Oklahoma City bomber did. You're going to try to make a lot of damage.

00:26:43:18 - 00:27:00:15
Unknown
It's not hard either. Like I think I could do that if I wanted. And I don't have that kind of training, you know. Right. Right. To make a big problem. So anyway, we've been seeing more and more of that and hopefully we don't. But I'll go back to the discourse. That's what helps us, get out of those ruts.

00:27:00:17 - 00:27:17:10
Unknown
So so you said you listen to Sean Ryan. I know that we've talked a lot about different Joe Rogan episodes and guests and like that, and both of us now have interviewed or all of us have interviewed over 100 different people of interest. Where do you get your media ready? Are you constantly are you that kind of guy that's just constantly listening to podcasts?

00:27:17:10 - 00:27:37:07
Unknown
Do you read a lot? What's your what's your diet? It's hard. I, I'm actually in the process of, like trying to streamline all of this right now. So I'm setting up RSS feeds to kind of centralize my, my information flow. But yeah, I will read some corporate media. I always, take everything with a grain of salt.

00:27:37:07 - 00:27:57:21
Unknown
Of course, I don't trust any anything completely. I will use a site media bias fact fact checker to see like where the bias is for certain things. So I do try to find some unbiased sources, but I also use XLA. I will see what people are saying on X. I really like the real time information that you can get there.

00:27:57:23 - 00:28:16:14
Unknown
Basically any time something is happening or you know something is happening. Fairly real time news is getting reported right now. I'm going on X to see what people are saying and to see what's happening, because there's always going to be, you know, several hours or more delay for any kind of corporate media to really get to the story.

00:28:16:14 - 00:28:35:13
Unknown
But it's kind of funny because we I mean, a lot of people in podcasting and, you know, we consider ourselves a new media, which I do think we are. But there's a lot of it that, like the backbone of some of it, is actually corporate media still. So. Oh yeah. Oh for sure. They realize how profitable these could be.

00:28:35:13 - 00:29:01:15
Unknown
And yeah, a lot of these, you know, do you think are homegrown small podcasts. And they have a great following. But they're they're owned by larger agencies. Yeah. Yeah I saw something on X which was mocking Elon lately who saying we are the media now. And it was it was about the forest fires in LA where it was basically the Oklahoma City Fire Department tweeted out at 9 a.m., we've got 50 trucks heading to the scene of the fire like we are coming to help.

00:29:01:17 - 00:29:23:11
Unknown
And it was not until 11 a.m. some random X user tweets out breaking. I've got an inside source. Oklahoma Fire Department is telling me 50 trucks are heading south, and that is the one that gets 4 million views. Oklahoma Fire Department has 30 followers and no views. And it's like it's almost what you're saying though, right? How is somebody going to study in our position?

00:29:23:11 - 00:29:46:06
Unknown
The only way you can go and study the January 6th, what happened is through the corporate media. So it is unavoidable. But I guess that that goes down to reading the different fact checks and the biases and all of this. And yeah, actually before this, this is interesting. Before starting this podcast, one of my goals was to do like a fake news kind of thing, like, hey, I read this article for you so you don't have to.

00:29:46:10 - 00:30:04:06
Unknown
Here's what it was about. But here is the sentence that's from this article that I found for you. That basically is the disclaimer for the whole thing. You know, this has been, on cited sources and we're not really sure, but the thing's coming out and we're going to tell you later, really on that. And so it was like, but but you can find that in every single article, both sides.

00:30:04:06 - 00:30:29:23
Unknown
You can find that in our podcast when we're freaking recording it right now. Everybody is disclaiming it. And it's like the caveat, the caveats or the killers. I will say this, I do, no matter what it is like, let's say the article is about a bill or something. I'm usually trying to get to the source information. So if a bill gets in the primary use that I want to go to the bill and not just whatever the article is saying.

00:30:29:23 - 00:30:47:13
Unknown
If there's a video concern like, I want to see the video, I don't want to read what you have to say about the video. I want to see the video and make my mind up for myself. Absolutely. So have you been paying attention? And you don't have to know much about the H-1b visas. We don't have to get into the technical details, but have you seen the drama surrounding it?

00:30:47:13 - 00:31:04:15
Unknown
And what I feel is, I guess the right is kind of eating itself a little bit because now there's two camps you know, those who are for and against, maybe even following that at all a little bit. I think like, it's Vivek and Ellen that are kind of at odds on this. I think it's I don't know much about it.

00:31:04:15 - 00:31:23:12
Unknown
I know there's like a little bit I think I think the I think if you're left leaning, you might look at that and see them as eating themselves. And then if you're right, you might be like, well, this is just healthy debate. Like, this is just we don't agree on everything. And I actually like that feeling more center when I look at that.

00:31:23:14 - 00:31:49:11
Unknown
I want to see infighting in whatever group is in power or we're trying to get power. Like I don't want them to have like a completely united front because that's I think that's kind of scary, actually. Yeah, it's kind of funny, right? Like as, a maverick. Right, as they call them. There's usually that politician in the party who votes a little differently or on certain issues and things like that, but hopefully we should see that a little bit more common.

00:31:49:11 - 00:32:18:02
Unknown
Right? It shouldn't just be one person, you know, speaking out and everyone shouldn't be telling the party line, yeah, I, I'm very much against the parties in general. I think they're corporations that are basically dictating our politics. And I, I like it when people go against the grain. I like it when they resist the party. It's actually something I think I might have said this on one of our interviews, but I think Trump kind of broke up the power structure of the Republican Party, and I'm waiting to see somebody do that on the left.

00:32:18:02 - 00:32:40:09
Unknown
And I think it's part of the problem that the Democratic Party has is there are I don't know if top heavy is the word, but I would say maybe top heavy, like they have this power structure in place that has just, you know, Obama was supposed to break it up a little. He came in, he kind of went against that, towed the party line way more.

00:32:40:11 - 00:32:58:03
Unknown
There just hasn't been a Democrat to really get in there and break that power structure. And I think it's good to have that. I hope someone breaks the power structure that Trump created eventually. You know, I don't think it's going to happen right away, but eventually. So that leads him to a question that we have here. So what would the Democratic Party have to do to earn your vote back?

00:32:58:03 - 00:33:14:20
Unknown
Because, right. Because you're kind of, as you said, you're a little bit more liberal and you're more not necessarily still, but you were a Bernie Sanders kind of voter, right. And that and what they did, you know, during his primary, cycle turn you off. So what would they have to do to kind of earn your dress back?

00:33:14:22 - 00:33:41:09
Unknown
It probably I mean, they'd have to start paying attention to the working class and not just saying that they're paying attention to the working class because that's something that it's basically people see them as being for the middle class. But they haven't really been in a while. They they're just kind of, riding on the waves of being called that for so long that it's still in people's minds, but it really isn't true.

00:33:41:10 - 00:34:06:11
Unknown
Like if you look at how Kamala did her rallies, it's billionaires and the elites performing at these rallies, and she's not going on to, Normal People podcast. She's going on to elitist podcasts. And, you know, I think basically in Clinton's years, I think that's when the relationship between the Democratic Party and Hollywood started getting really close.

00:34:06:12 - 00:34:27:21
Unknown
And I think Obama did that even more. I mean, he's a producer director now. And. Right, I think that relationship got pretty cozy. And I don't blame them because I think every like we're obsessed with celebrity in the US, and I think it's no different for politicians. And when they get in those circles, I think they feel really cool.

00:34:28:01 - 00:34:50:21
Unknown
When you're hanging out with Jay-Z, Beyoncé, when you're talking to these people and befriending these people, you feel cool. And, I think the problem is our politicians need to be in touch with the common man, not just, you know, rich people. So you're not looking for a vibes campaign. You're actually looking for policy in substance, something that actually affects the voters.

00:34:50:21 - 00:35:10:12
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, very much policy in the policy lately. The last 12 years, it's just been Trump is bad. And it's like, dude, you got to give me more than that because it's just not landing anymore. Yeah. Orange man bad only sells for so long right? Yeah. I, I like what you said about how it's good to see the infighting, and it sounds like your answer to that question is more.

00:35:10:12 - 00:35:36:01
Unknown
So you're going to vote for the individual rather than the party. And that's probably how all three of us feel here. Yeah, most of the way. But I do want to say about the infighting on the right, specifically about H-1b, I think that it exposes the conscientious right versus the ignorant right is what I'm going to label them in this conversation, because this whole time we've been talking about immigration and the border, for years, it's been that.

00:35:36:01 - 00:36:01:12
Unknown
Yeah, we don't want illegal immigrants, but we love immigrants and we want legal immigration. And let's revise that system. So isn't it very telling, though, that a faction of the right. As soon as we talk about H-1b visas, you see this racist against Indian tirade and exposing how they found a couple visas that were actually used for 7-Eleven cashiers, you know, it was stuff that's like, guys, this is the goal.

00:36:01:12 - 00:36:18:06
Unknown
This is what we were talking about. And then when you have a leader of the party, like, I mean, I surprised in myself that I just phrased it that way, but Elon, or Vivek, they're on the same side. They both say that H-1b visas are like non-negotiable, necessary. You know, you kind of have to trust these guys, right?

00:36:18:06 - 00:36:37:22
Unknown
They're the ones that have actually hired them. No, no, no, one of these podcasters have hired H-1b visas. So I don't know, I, I tend to think that it's similar to medical misinformation, election misinformation. You know, we talked about on my episode with you already about our interview with Flint Dibble, the archeologist. Right. Pseudoscience and all of that kind of stuff.

00:36:38:00 - 00:37:00:01
Unknown
It has this very strong faction and appeal to people that say, quote unquote, I'm just asking questions. And it turns out that it's this almost mental contagion where the shot got, they pulled a blood clot out of some lady's heart, you know, and that means that every vaccine, even the the polio vaccine, is bad. It just doesn't make sense.

00:37:00:03 - 00:37:31:06
Unknown
And it's actually intellectual dishonesty, right. If you're going to fight against illegal immigration and now all of a sudden fight against H-1b visas, which I think, Mike, you probably know the number off the top of your head, isn't it less than 100,000. So what I will I will say is that just like my whole thesis is that immigration is good to give context to most folks, you know, some of our pre-show banter, we were we were, you know, engaging in, we're talking about how, a lot of the environmentalist movement and this is something when we were growing up ten, 20 years ago, we were worried about overpopulation in the developed

00:37:31:06 - 00:37:52:12
Unknown
world. But it's quite the opposite, actually. You know, it's it happened in a single generation, starting with the millennials. And now even Gen Z is we're not having kids as soon or even at all. So what we're actually facing the developed world is a de population crisis. We look at most developed nations, and it's nearly every one of them, be it, you know, Europe or even China is they're experiencing these demographic problems.

00:37:52:12 - 00:38:15:03
Unknown
And what makes the US such a robust and exceptional economy is that is because of our immigration. Folks want to come here and they want to participate in the experiment and to put some numbers to it, this, this, the the sustainable level to keep population where it's at as a family would have to have 2.1 kids. Right? So on average people are having a little over two kids in the US it's 1.6 which is not sustainable.

00:38:15:05 - 00:38:35:12
Unknown
But when you compare it to the rest of the developed world, which is that like 1.2, then you really start to see like these drastic differences. So to what Cooper was pointing out, you know, it's yeah, we should address illegal immigration. I see it firsthand. In the recycling industry, there's it's it's loaded with lots of immigrants. And there's benefits to it and there's downsides to it.

00:38:35:12 - 00:38:51:07
Unknown
The, you know, the illegal immigration. So it's it's something we need to address. But then people get confused with this, you know, process that certainly needs some reform, but they just want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, no, no, no, we don't need any immigration whatsoever. Yeah, I, I find it, as Cooper said, intellectually dishonest.

00:38:51:07 - 00:39:15:22
Unknown
And most folks don't want to have that tough, complicated conversation. I think, the right is really good at shooting itself in its own right. Not everyone, but there are just positions that it's not everyone, but they just take these positions to an absurd degree. And immigration is once again one of them. I do think, illegal immigration is bad.

00:39:15:22 - 00:39:37:10
Unknown
I just it is inherently bad. Like, if you don't know who's coming in, the IRS and and the government knows just about everything they can about us. Three, we are legal citizens and they know everything about us. It doesn't make sense to have people coming into our country that have so much less, knowing about them than they know about us, you know?

00:39:37:12 - 00:40:01:00
Unknown
So we do need to tackle illegal immigration, but we're a nation built, built on immigration. So to be completely against immigration, it's not it's just that lack of nuance. It's this lack of, it's this black and white thinking. Somebody read some articles that are not very well informed and they're like, I'm against immigration. That's like, no, that's that's not actually the issue.

00:40:01:02 - 00:40:19:11
Unknown
You just you only read the headline. So something we talked about when, I had the pleasure of being on your show, is, is what we use AI for. So I would hope you maybe you could bring it up and let our viewers know a little bit. I know you love to use it for art, but also very interestingly, you use it also to help construct your logical arguments and kind of check yourself.

00:40:19:13 - 00:40:51:00
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I, I write all of my own stuff. Like if I'm making a post, I write all my own stuff, but I will feed it into AI and I'll say, is my logic consistent here, or is there any are there any flaws? And what I'm saying here. And sometimes that's sometimes what I write is it's just I'm maybe I'm more emotional when I write it or something like that, and I feed it and it's like I end up not posting it, but generally, like, I, I can make pretty sound arguments, but there's always going to be some flaws.

00:40:51:00 - 00:41:13:17
Unknown
So I use AI to kind of guide my ideas a bit. And I will argue with AI too. Like if it if it tells me something and I don't agree, I will argue and and I've gotten some concessions actually. So it's kind of that's good. I, I'm very polite. I use please and thank you with the AI, but, I like that you say that because I hate it.

00:41:13:17 - 00:41:36:00
Unknown
I just, I post a lot on Twitter and I get these comments and it's like, did you copy and paste in my post and ask somebody else to respond to computer? It's like you can just almost tell, yeah, at this level, ChatGPT help me win this argument. That's right. But actually it's reminding me now of a bit. I'm going to try to I'm going to butcher it, but it's one of my favorite comedians, Rodney Chang from his latest standup special.

00:41:36:04 - 00:41:59:11
Unknown
And he goes, he shows his mom or his mom shows him a picture of like something clearly I generate, you know, it's like the Trump Tower is on fire at her. And she goes, is this real? Look at this. And he goes, no, it's not real. She goes, but how do you know? You know? And he goes in this tirade, it's like three minutes of because I grew up in the internet era, and I go through the minutia of this and I can tell and you don't even need to look at it for more than a second, because you could just understand it.

00:41:59:11 - 00:42:15:00
Unknown
And it's like, it's true. It's very dangerous for 40% of the country that doesn't know anything about AI. They're going to buy all of this. They're going to think people online are the smartest people on earth. And then the half of us are going to go, oh, we know what you just did. Yeah, I know what the hell are you talking?

00:42:15:00 - 00:42:33:18
Unknown
I leverage the power of memes, AI, whatever you want to call them all the time. And I, I had an interesting experience. Probably that two months ago. Three months ago, I was just posting something in discord promoting our show, and I put the episode up and I wrote a little bit of a primer about it, just in case anyone wanted to, you know, have a little intro before clicking on the link.

00:42:33:20 - 00:42:56:17
Unknown
And I actually got accused of using ChatGPT to write the thing and I'm like, wow, I don't know how to take that as a compliment or not, because I wrote this entirely myself. But then I also wonder, I'm like this, you know, the general society, not even know the difference between like a well articulated, you know, statement and oh, it must be written by it, because a person couldn't possibly be this intelligent or just, you know, be coherent or not.

00:42:56:17 - 00:43:14:01
Unknown
So, where do you draw the line? Right. Well, at what point is that I may be helpful? And then where does it become too problematic? Well, to touch on that, I think, one of the Republicans tried to call Vivek Ramaswamy, like ChatGPT in one of the debates or something is an insult. So it's kind of funny and reminds me of that.

00:43:14:01 - 00:43:32:03
Unknown
But you're right, I, I'm going to remember what that was by the end of your talk. I think if you're the problem is when you're letting the AI do your thinking for you like you don't want, like what's sitting on top of your shoulders is if you believe in God, it's the best gift God ever gave to you.

00:43:32:07 - 00:43:55:01
Unknown
And if you don't believe in God, it is just, remarkable piece of nature. It is, it's just it's just amazing the brains that we have and what we're capable of. And we are very different than the other animals in that sense. But I think if you are writing, I do your thinking completely for you. I think that's the problem.

00:43:55:04 - 00:44:18:09
Unknown
I think if you're using it as a tool, that's great, but it's you don't want to substitute it for your own thinking. Make it better, make it simpler so. So maybe we'll we'll peel back the layers a little bit here too, so that, you know, so folks know about the inner cogs of making a podcast. And you've probably seen this as you, you know, you promote your show in different channels.

00:44:18:14 - 00:44:42:15
Unknown
Have you ever seen these advertisements that are essentially like, I will do your entire show for you, like, you know, create show notes that, you know, and it's just like at a certain point it's like, yeah, you're right. This is like the dead internet theory. I don't know if you've ever heard that where all of these eyes are making fake comments on people's pages, driving fake, you know, engagement, writing the whole show for them because they determine that this is viral content, you know, like I feel you on that.

00:44:42:15 - 00:45:01:13
Unknown
It where people are starting to let the AI do the thinking for them. Yeah. It's useful like I have it write my show notes or whatever in my description for the podcast because it's useful, because it's easier for it to, digest it to our episode and put out a description than it is for me to be like, oh, what do we talk about?

00:45:01:13 - 00:45:20:01
Unknown
I have to watch it for two hours. And yeah, I find it useful for that. But yeah, like, I mean, we know I'm sure you guys use a little AI for your podcast too. For sure. It can't do everything. It cannot do everything. Oh, not even close. I there's so much that you still need to do. I I'll see.

00:45:20:03 - 00:45:39:07
Unknown
Commercials for opus clips, which I do use opus and it's like, oh, this is how people post a thousand posts a month or something. Whatever it is, it's like I is it. It still takes me some time to get the post right. Because. Right. It'll take me an hour to get ten post created because I care about how they end up.

00:45:39:07 - 00:45:57:14
Unknown
I it's not perfect. Some of them are horrible and it's like, why did you make this cut? Why did you cut it off mid-sentence? Like, it's not perfect, it's just a tool for people listening. Opus is what we all used to go. Take our hour long video and turn it into the vertical clips for social media, on TikTok and Instagram.

00:45:57:16 - 00:46:22:09
Unknown
And it is very helpful because it's hard to identify the smartest or coolest or most emotion or parts of your episode. And this does it for you. But I already actually, the other day I was on TikTok and I saw a video. It was this guy, Caleb Hammer, who does the financial audit. I don't know if anyone knows him, but he, it wasn't his channel that posted the video, and it was just a clip clearly made from open source, had the basic like font and everything.

00:46:22:12 - 00:46:41:19
Unknown
And in the description it was speaker one speaks to speaker two and. Speaker three it's like, oh my God, they didn't even read it before hitting the post. But yeah, it was like, come on guys. But but that it's just a testament right to we have these tools. I mean you're the one man show, right? Me and Mike at least try to split it up as best we can.

00:46:41:21 - 00:46:56:22
Unknown
Do you find that you ever, like, burn out on this stuff on social media? Do you? Yeah. You want to just throw your phone at the wall? Because right now I. And I'll say this, I don't know if our podcast listeners know this, but I've only posted like three tweets, five tweets this year so far. I've definitely burnt out.

00:46:57:03 - 00:47:15:08
Unknown
It did not give me what I wanted in 2024. And so I'm reevaluating, you know, the other platforms have helped me. And so that's what I've decided. And I'm wondering if you seen that felt that is it burnout? Is it just in my head? Is it my content. But like what are your thoughts on that? Oh yeah, I've been burnt out.

00:47:15:10 - 00:47:35:08
Unknown
Starting in December. I was like, I'm just kind of done right now. And, subduing my space is actually, I think the space I did with you, Cooper, is the last one that I did. And then I started getting back into spaces this week, and it's just like it's an off the record, no recording. Just how are you guys doing?

00:47:35:08 - 00:47:58:17
Unknown
Part of the community thing was just a conversation because it's a lot of effort to, like, put things together and advertise for promote it. But yeah, I get really burnt out. I have help, though. I have, I hired an intern to help me with posting on, Instagram, and, and I have an editor that helps me with that, so that helps a bit.

00:47:58:17 - 00:48:18:15
Unknown
And I, I want to release a little bit more control of that over time. Obviously money is always a factor with that. But, I feel like that helps my ex. I'll always control my ex count and, I'll always be the one interviewing on my podcast. But yeah, I don't mind releasing some of that because I don't like social media.

00:48:18:21 - 00:48:40:16
Unknown
I actually did our roundtable with some other podcasters yesterday, and it's what I said yesterday. If I could, I would just do the podcast and basically never post on social media. Right. So it's really for you more about building the connections, having those intriguing conversations, growing your own thoughts and brain instead of getting famous and getting a paycheck.

00:48:40:16 - 00:49:07:08
Unknown
You know, in fact, when you start to make that the goal, that's when you kind of Peter out. I feel like it's not possible. So yeah, yeah, I think podcasting has been a very humbling, but also very important experience has taught me a lot. It's also helped me build a lot of skills. I think one of the most important things, and it just applies generally to life, is you realize you have so many hours in the day and you have to focus on those, you know, things that you can feasibly get done.

00:49:07:08 - 00:49:19:12
Unknown
And that's actually one of Cooper's strengths is he's able to kind of pull me back, because I often have these kind of grandiose ideas. I want to do this, I want to do that. I want to get this and this. And he goes, Mike, there's not enough hours in the week or even day for us to get any of this stuff done.

00:49:19:12 - 00:49:35:15
Unknown
We need you to just, you know, like, let's just do these handful of things. What are some of the things, I guess you could say you just realized it's not worth the time investment. I know for us, you know, we're looking at certain social media channels and it's just you realize, like all this time and posting it just it's very little return.

00:49:35:17 - 00:49:54:10
Unknown
Yeah. Or flip it on its head. What is your biggest success? Right. Like for us, for example, where I say X is not performing TikTok over performing, we get hundreds of views on every video. It drives a lot to our YouTube. I mean, and our YouTube is where it's built for videos. So it really takes off.

00:49:54:10 - 00:50:17:11
Unknown
And I'm like, you know, what are you finding? What what are you dropping and what are you picking up in 25, I guess, yeah, I. I dropped everything fairly early. So like Facebook and LinkedIn, I post on there to let people know that I released an episode, but I don't do anything else. I don't post any other clips or anything like that.

00:50:17:13 - 00:50:37:17
Unknown
So I think that's what I learned. At first I was posting clips everywhere at first and then, and, and I had a bad experience with TikTok, honestly. But, I think I'm back on there now, and I, I kind of just got to this point where I'm putting all of this energy to post on all of these platforms, and I'm only really getting engagement.

00:50:37:18 - 00:51:00:23
Unknown
I really only talk to people on X and Instagram and maybe one other platform, like I'm just going to drop all of that stuff or do the announcement because that takes, you know, a minute each week, two minutes each week. But after that, there's just no point in putting any time to it. So I'd say that just like Facebook, I think Facebook is pretty much a dead platform at this point.

00:51:01:01 - 00:51:19:22
Unknown
It's to. So you don't think Mark Zuckerberg all of a sudden being one of the pros and not censoring anything more is going to bring the platform back. The only people I know that post on Facebook are, that, no offense, it's the parents of the people with kids my age. And then it's, grandparents. I think it's it's the older generation.

00:51:19:22 - 00:51:36:14
Unknown
You're not wrong. The demographics is certainly older. That's something that we discover, too, is you'd have to target, you know, an older demographic because that's pretty much who's there. Yeah, which we do. We read a lot of history books, but, now it's good. I mean, and every platform has its very own voice, which has been interesting as well.

00:51:36:14 - 00:51:50:21
Unknown
And you kind of get into your niche, but, Yeah. All right. Well, we're a politics show, and we say that we do culture and intrigue. Just so our listeners, if they're interested in your as well, what would you say yours. Is it political in nature? It's more just about intrigue. I think what I it's how I would describe it.

00:51:50:21 - 00:52:11:04
Unknown
Yeah. I say society and culture. I mean it's been a lot of politics the last couple of months with the election coming up and getting over. So yeah, I like politics and I just don't want my show to be just politics because I would go crazy. But I like politics and I hate politics and I like it. I like talking about it.

00:52:11:04 - 00:52:32:06
Unknown
Like as long as it's a civil conversation, I enjoy it. As long as it's not like the Partizan, like, right or wrong. I got into a conversation the other night where somebody was just saying how Republicans are horrible and they want to destroy everything and get rid of the FDA. And I'm like, he was originally saying, like, scientists are, nutritionists.

00:52:32:08 - 00:52:49:19
Unknown
And I'm like, well, what have they done? Because FDA has done a lot like there's a lot of things that they're failing on and they have failed on. And I pointed that out and he just wanted to stick. I'm like, well, Republicans are bad. I'm like, okay, this isn't my kind of conversation. I'm out. So yeah, just they want to rehash talking points that they learned somewhere else.

00:52:49:19 - 00:53:07:17
Unknown
And then once they've used them, they don't really have much to continue the conversation with at that point. Yeah, yeah. Flint Temple tweeted out last week, the archeologist who got canceled by the pseudo archeologists. He said, yeah, it's true. I was diagnosed by cancer and I beat it. And you know how I beat it? Mainstream medicine. Yeah, exactly.

00:53:07:17 - 00:53:26:10
Unknown
It's just like, okay, you got us. Yeah, man. Quick thing. So place for dunking. So what have you got in the works? We know you got the Luigi Mangan. Deep dive episode. Is there anything else that you're working on? And, coming up in the pipeline? Yeah, I interviewed, my friend Ryan, who I just met on X.

00:53:26:12 - 00:53:53:19
Unknown
He grew up in an Amish Mennonite cult for a while, which was really interesting. So we had a conversation. It was cool. Other than that, I have, a couple interviews booked, but it's it's the beginning of the year, and I just. I feel kind of, I've been in this mode for a few weeks now, and it's going to last a few more where I'm just, like, trying to redo all my systems and get everything in place.

00:53:53:21 - 00:54:15:23
Unknown
And I'm the type of personality where once I. Because I can leave things and organize for a while. But once I start organizing, it's like, okay, I need to I don't need to just organize my information flow for news. I need to organize my pictures. I need to organize everything. Like there needs to be completely straight. So it's a process.

00:54:16:01 - 00:54:38:18
Unknown
But yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to, I'm putting my potential guest list together, like, making it better, adding a bunch of people that I haven't been adding. So, yeah, I don't have, like, anything like, oh, yeah, everything in place right now. But I'm excited for where things are going to go because I'm just once I have everything organized, I feel like I'll be able to come up with a better, plan going forward.

00:54:38:18 - 00:54:51:06
Unknown
You know? Yeah. Systemize right. It makes the labor not feel like the work. Yeah. I have a list of who you're going to talk to and about what? And all you have to do is show up. You don't have to think about all of that. And, that's what we've been doing as well, actually, at this exact point.

00:54:51:06 - 00:55:06:02
Unknown
And it's it's funny when we chat, just offline, a lot of what you do and what we do is very similar. And it's funny, this is kind of like a meta episode about how we run our shows, but a lot of our audience actually is podcasters as well. And that's how we network. And I think, yeah.

00:55:06:02 - 00:55:28:22
Unknown
So it was similar as well. But, it's very interesting and, it's cool. This is how we have to network, you know, this is, it's part of the grind, but but the point was, we all are feeling the same kind of thing every all the time. And it's kind of cool. It's. We talked to, George Heyworth, the masculinity coach, and he's going to cringe at that label, but, you know, he's a man's man for sure.

00:55:28:22 - 00:55:57:15
Unknown
And he helps other guys become really responsible in that way. Yeah. And, Just the level of discipline and all of that, it makes me think like, well, what what are we doing? But it reminds me of a story that you told me a while ago, and I forget who is the influencer that you pointed on. But he he had brought up that story where, you know, you get that, that, that, that that reality check in, you're like, okay, we're we're grinding away, you know, and we're just we're not feeling like we're making that much progress.

00:55:57:15 - 00:56:09:15
Unknown
And then you talk to somebody who's who's a little bit ahead of where you are, and then you're like, oh, so like, you know how they ask you how many posts you're doing day and you're like, oh, we do like, you know, 1 or 2 posts and they're like, oh, I do 10 to 20 and you're like, oh, okay.

00:56:09:15 - 00:56:29:15
Unknown
That's why they're doing that much more successful. They're doing 10 to 20 times the amount of work that we're doing. That explains it. It's, it's certainly a challenge, but it inspires you. So in that in that same vein, you doing what you do definitely inspires us. And we're very grateful for you having hosted us. And let's not let this be the last time I look forward to other, you know, invitations, on each other's show.

00:56:29:15 - 00:56:47:00
Unknown
I definitely, you know, appreciate that kind of opportunity. Yeah. Thank you. I, I love what you guys are doing. I have a lot of respect for both of you. It was awesome talking to both of you, separately. And then in this episode, it's been really cool. And where can we find you? Let the folks know what's the best channels and, links to find yet?

00:56:47:06 - 00:57:07:01
Unknown
Yeah. So, at some RTMp podcast, and then thoughtfully on Spotify, Apple, all kinds of stuff like that. And if you ever don't know, where to find me, everything can be found on thoughtfully dot Nasscom. I have basically everything listed there. You can find you can even listen to the podcast there. So everything is on that site.

00:57:07:01 - 00:57:23:22
Unknown
And yeah, it's pretty much the best way to find me. Awesome. Well, hey, all of the links are below you guys. And this has been elevated thoughts.