Has the Left Gone Too Woke? Brianna Wu on Trans Issues & Voter Backlash

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:06
Unknown
Well, what does our trans message need to be like? I think there's a really good argument that we lost this election, from having a really extreme message on trans stuff is that things I don't agree with. Fringe trans politics have gotten given the Republicans everything they need to attack people like me. Even when its policies don't help people like me.

00:00:24:07 - 00:00:52:00
Unknown
You know, we lost because, working class people don't associate the Democratic Party for standing for their interests anymore. And frankly, despite losing ro, you know, abortion is not the only issue that women care about. Being able to afford childcare or groceries. You know, there's a whole host of whole bread and butter issues that are feminist issues that the Democratic Party just no longer has answers for.

00:00:52:01 - 00:01:17:06
Unknown
So, we can spend the next four years attacking Trump. And I'm sure a lot of us. Well, I'm far more interested in building a brand for the Democrats that is relatable and insoluble politically. We have very different viewpoints on many things, but a lot of these issues are American issues. They're not Republican or Democrat issues.

00:01:17:08 - 00:01:38:17
Unknown
Today on Elevated Thoughts, we're joined by Brianna Wu, video game developer, activist and former congressional candidate. Known for her fearless advocacy on tech reform, online harassment and progressive policies. Brianna will hopefully offer us a nice view on her perspective on the left and the right, which is what we try to do here. So thanks for joining us, Brianna.

00:01:38:17 - 00:02:01:17
Unknown
How are you today? You know, I thought I would just come on in and crash your party so bad. I'm in your podcast like the Kool-Aid woman thing. There we go. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to have you on. It really is. Is it really a pleasure? I don't think oh, very much, but actually I think we're very aligned, actually, it's funny, I've been following your content because much like you, even I find myself as a member of the left.

00:02:01:17 - 00:02:22:16
Unknown
I'm. I feel alienated because I support a lot of the same issues that you do that crosses the party line. If you will. It's kind of gone a little nuts this year. Oh, yeah, it's a little weird. Sort of weird. Well, that's a great segue. I mean, if you've watched our show and many of our listeners know that I'm the right wing pundit on the show, and Mike is the left wing pundit and we have right wingers.

00:02:22:18 - 00:02:40:14
Unknown
Oh, I can't I'm sorry, I'm a progressive. I can't talk to people I have to agree on. So that's a great place to start actually, because you and that's one of the reasons it actually is our privilege and pleasure to have you on here. You're someone who's kind of been canceled by both sides of the aisle. Oh, yeah.

00:02:40:14 - 00:03:04:13
Unknown
Yeah. So we mentioned, that you're a video game developer, and that's where I had originally heard your name a few years ago, actually. Now, during Gamergate. And I'm wondering if you could help tell our listeners and us even a little bit about Gamergate, what your position was. And, you know, the five sentence version, maybe. Yeah. If you all know about Gamergate, just watch the Law and Order episode is totally factually accurate.

00:03:04:19 - 00:03:27:16
Unknown
What happened is Ice-T rescued me from Logan Paul on a rooftop. I was kidnaped and then like, literally, this is Logan Paul before he was famous working for me. So he kidnaped me. And then Logan Paul came up and bam, bam, bam shot Logan Paul dead and saved me, and everything went from there. So that's the story of Gamergate.

00:03:27:18 - 00:03:51:10
Unknown
In all seriousness, it was a harassment, movement against women in the video game industry. It was really the start of this, fringe, progressive playbook. I'm sorry, this, fringe, harassment playbook that we see, where if you don't like something someone says you got through everything they've ever said, you target them, you you silence them.

00:03:51:10 - 00:04:20:14
Unknown
And that's kind of what Gamergate was all about. So just just so I'm aware it was about putting female characters into video games, right? No, no, not even close to that. So like, oh, yeah. And like, yeah, Gamergate was originally it was it started as a backlash against Adina Sarkeesian. The frustration was she had a Kickstarter where she was going to do a feminist analysis on video games, and that upset people.

00:04:20:16 - 00:04:41:06
Unknown
They kind of got a playbook that worked as far as, harassing people. They ran it on Zoe Quinn. They ran it on me. And, you know, ostensibly it was about ethics in game journalism. You know, the pragmatic reality was it was about women like me, basically being targeted with harassment because we were feminine.

00:04:41:06 - 00:05:03:19
Unknown
So that's kind of my perspective on Gamergate. Do you think the industries evolved for the better in any way, or they're still working on the same challenges? I think a lot of the issues that we cared about are completely irrelevant, today, in the sense that, you know, the Gamergate side, they really wanted, you know, they wanted, ethics reform in how games are covered.

00:05:03:21 - 00:05:29:14
Unknown
Well, today I polygon games, but they don't really functionally have much power. So I don't really feel like there's much they need addressed there as far as, like, women and how we're treated in the video game industry. Marginal changes. There's certainly a few more female game journalists today than there were, you know, ten years ago.

00:05:29:20 - 00:05:54:18
Unknown
But, you can point to women in studio heads today and say, like, we've really changed this culture. I can't. So so what was your role? You were the head of a video game development company. Yeah, yeah. And there were harassing the crap out of my friends. And I spoke up about the, I've long felt that women do not get a fair shake in the video game industry.

00:05:54:20 - 00:06:15:15
Unknown
It was just a shockingly, difficult industry to work in, if that makes sense to you. Yeah. So I think there's another it's kind of an interesting as relevant to the most recent episode of your podcast that talks, which is very nice. You can you talk about, you know, unfortunately, standing up for something, especially in this age and on the internet, comes at extraordinary cost these days.

00:06:15:15 - 00:06:29:21
Unknown
And I think it's interesting that you have the ability to both be a pariah on Twitter as well as one of the most blocked people on blue Sky. I thought that was pretty interesting. So can you talk to us a little bit about do you think I'm a pariah? I think every major public for that, that's the thing.

00:06:29:21 - 00:06:43:12
Unknown
And for Twitter, to someone to gain a little bit of notoriety, everyone wants to knock you down a peg or two so they can climb up. Right. But so my my point being is, and you alluded to this in the beginning of the show, it's just simply because, oh, well, you have different ideas than me, then it means that we can't be friends.

00:06:43:12 - 00:06:57:02
Unknown
And that's the exact opposite. And that's what we try to show on this. This, program here is that, you know, we couldn't, you know, disagree more, Cooper and I, but we remain friends, and we find the common ground where we can. Because at the end of the day, this is the democratic experiment. That's the only way it works.

00:06:57:02 - 00:07:16:04
Unknown
So what what what what is it like, for you trying to navigate things these days and especially with some of, you know, certain beliefs that you hold that puts you outside of the, you know, party line of the Democrats? Well, I mean, everything I'm doing right now in my career is trying to, get the Democrats back on course, if that makes sense to you.

00:07:16:04 - 00:07:42:18
Unknown
I think, yeah, the Democratic Party, goes in phases. And, you know, I'm a little too young to know, the tip O'Neill era of him kind of running the House Democrats and things like that. But, you know, y'know, I certainly know what we are like and like the Bush years and, you know, I think when Obama won in 2008, that really sanctioned, a new chapter for the Democratic Party.

00:07:42:20 - 00:08:03:06
Unknown
And we're kind of at the end of that playbook now with Biden having lost. And I think we're looking for a new identity. I think it's a really good time to look at what's working in the party and what isn't. And I think it's really hard for anyone in good faith to deny that the Democratic Party is now the party of elitists.

00:08:03:07 - 00:08:27:16
Unknown
We've really quadruple down on identity politics. A phrase I thought was B.S. five years ago, but now I think it's been taken to such an insane degree. We can't get normal people to vote for us with this iteration of our party. So, yeah, I'm getting some blowback from people, but I also raise a ton of money for Democrats in back channel.

00:08:27:18 - 00:08:47:03
Unknown
And, you know, like, everything I'm doing is trying to make us viable so we can win the next presidential election, if that makes sense to you. It does. It does. Yeah. So I actually be curious to understand, there's a lot of different issues that go on. And Mike and I covered different issues with all of our different guests.

00:08:47:05 - 00:09:03:22
Unknown
I've been following you on the last couple days, and one of the things that you've been talking quite a bit about is, Israel and Hamas in your, in your ranks and the Democrats. And I'm wondering if that's like, is that a type of person? Is that a type of American, a Hamas supporter, does that exist? Yeah, yeah, of course it does.

00:09:04:00 - 00:09:35:01
Unknown
And they with the Democratic Party, it's a huge percentage of the trans movement. That's 100% in on this free Palestine nonsense. And yeah, I mean, there's very clearly contingency that is extremely sympathetic to this. You know, Sheila Tlaib has power. And, you know, frankly, I think one reason the Democrats lost this election is we were so unwilling to make a moral call and tried to please everyone to win Dearborn, Michigan, which we were never going to win anyway.

00:09:35:03 - 00:09:54:13
Unknown
And I think it just speaks to this spineless that's, in her party, you know, it really is. Okay to just say, you know what? This is right? This is wrong. These are my values. If you don't like it, go vote for someone else. And just for whatever reason, the Democrats are unable to do that. I think it's really unfortunate.

00:09:54:15 - 00:10:14:09
Unknown
So you see. Go ahead. Sorry, I forgot. I was just going to say you intertwines two topics there, which was the Free Palestine movement and the trans movement. And that there's a lot of overlap between the two. We recently interviewed, an archeologist named Flint Dibble who famously debated Graham Hancock, and Joe Rogan, who goes and talks to us about, or talks to people about Atlantis.

00:10:14:11 - 00:10:33:18
Unknown
And it was interesting to me how that became a left first right conversation where you find that the overlap of people on the right believe in political misinformation, medical misinformation. And now all of a sudden, I've led this hunt for Atlantis, which is rooted in racism. People believe. And then the other side is saying, no, we're science, we're history.

00:10:33:18 - 00:11:01:10
Unknown
We're all of this stuff. So it's very interesting that the politic political aisle lines have aligned with these different causes, if you will. And I'm curious if you can help me understand why would a trans group or be interested into Palestine, Hamas at all? Well, I think there is a really big culture on the left. Like one of the problems is, there's no mechanism in progressive politics to put the brakes on bad ideas.

00:11:01:12 - 00:11:26:00
Unknown
So we tend to go further and further and further left. So, if you look at where I go and progressive politics 20 years ago, it was because I was like a very poor trans woman trying to save up for vaginoplasty. And I was working minimum wage at GameStop. And I just thought a better system should exist to help me get the health care I needed to move on with my life.

00:11:26:02 - 00:11:57:12
Unknown
I think if you look at it today, we don't talk about universal health care anymore. It's 100% identity politics. So, I think it really breaks down into this oppressor, oppressed dynamic. That's very, very simple. And I think the idea is that, for a lot of people that Israel is this 300 pound gorilla and not the fact that they're 400 million Muslims in this region, 7 million Jews, 9 million Israelis.

00:11:57:12 - 00:12:23:16
Unknown
And, there's been a project since 1948 to genocide. So I think like, it's this really unfortunate mixture of, silencing a culture that silences, really critical discussion of this, a lack of information and just, frankly, the progressive left wing captured by Islamists. So, so the thing is, I guess, right, is the progressives tend to root for that underdog.

00:12:23:16 - 00:12:48:11
Unknown
But this narrative has been, you know, perverted. And now they see. And then you've clearly outplayed the population differences that it's really that Israel is the underdog despite military advantages. They have the entire region after them. I think what it is is people start with good intentions, and surely there's perhaps conduct of the war or concerns about Netanyahu's, you know, organization of the government and this shift towards a hard right within within the, you know, the their system over there.

00:12:48:12 - 00:13:16:08
Unknown
But, to the chanting from the river to the sea, I think you highlighted it perfectly. It's people are ignorant by either willfully or unintentionally. They don't know what that phrase really means. And they're calling for genocide, whether they realize it or not. It's also just, frankly, anti-Semitic. Right? Right. The the tropes that, you know, the progressive left have gone into, it's just openly stated if you support Israel byline progressives like you're being bought by the Jews.

00:13:16:09 - 00:13:49:22
Unknown
I get told that I'm like, as far a operative on the payroll probably 50 times a day. It's so openly Jew hating and, just laughable. And it's it's extremely, it's extremely frustrating from my perspective. You know, it's it's I, I just I think about when I, I think about all the Jews that have helped me throughout my life and, you know, before October 7th, I just had not really thought that much about Israel Palestine.

00:13:49:22 - 00:14:12:18
Unknown
Like, I supported Israel in like a vague sense just from the sense like I'm pro establishment and pro relationships with other countries. But, you know, I hadn't really thought that deeply about what happened in 1948. And, you know, really found myself needing to sit down and read through this because as a public figure, I have to get it right.

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:38:17
Unknown
And I sat down and I read the history and what I saw over and over again was Israel being attacked. And, you know, and I see this genocidal project to destroy Israel. And I think anyone honestly looks at the history will come to the same conclusion. I hope that Israel's a flawed country, but, directionally, they're just trying to survive.

00:14:38:18 - 00:14:59:13
Unknown
When you say that, you get a lot of hate online. I resonate with that because I was the right wing guy that talked a lot about election interference and, the, you know, whatever hardcore politics of the flavor season was that there? I even suggest. Q but now dealing with Mike and trying to read more and study more, as you just suggested to was it's really moderated me.

00:14:59:15 - 00:15:21:10
Unknown
And I'm wondering if you've felt that this anti-Semitism you mentioned you're getting or even just at regular online harassment, is it typically really only from right wingers that say we hate trans people and we don't want any women? I mean, or do you also get anti Jew stuff from the left wing? I know Jewish, I get called every Jewish name in the book you can imagine it 100 times a day.

00:15:21:13 - 00:15:43:15
Unknown
It's kind of weird. Like at this point I've been called a dirty Jew so much like it kind of. Let's think it was funny from the first week, but I don't know, it's like today it's just, it's a little weird. Yeah. Just being honest, most of the anti, trans hate or the hate I get for being a trans woman, it does come from, terfs.

00:15:43:15 - 00:16:12:17
Unknown
And right wingers, certainly right aligned people that want to push trans people out publicly. There are also a lot of Republicans who have been completely lovely to me and have been fantastic allies. So, you know, I don't want to paint everyone with the broad brush. I do want to, bury down into that, actually, because there was a recent spat with, with your, podcast and, JK Rowling, actually one of your tweets, maybe you can enlighten our audience a little bit about that saga.

00:16:12:19 - 00:16:38:18
Unknown
Sure. You know, it was so funny because, my show, Dark Cast, it is for integrated trans women. You know, trans women that I hope y'all are talking to me today. Think, oh, this is someone who makes a lot of sense as a woman, right. So it's three hosts that are very similar to me. You know, we didn't we didn't transition to become political activists.

00:16:38:18 - 00:17:03:02
Unknown
We had a medical condition, we got help for it. And we're just trying to live our lives as best as we can. I've been married to a man for, 18 years, this year. So, you know, with with doll cast, we had a segment where we were talking about doing your hair. And, you know, this is something like assuming y'all have wives or girlfriends, like, this is something just women do.

00:17:03:02 - 00:17:29:14
Unknown
And it was a segment that we did of just sitting around talking for like 20 minutes about how we take care of our hair every day. You know, I tweeted it out and I'm just like, you know, I don't know how anyone could look at this and not say, like, this is a normal conversation that women have. And the Terfs went after that and J.K. Rowling was like, oh, so now you're saying, like, just because you can talk about your hair like you're women?

00:17:29:14 - 00:17:51:15
Unknown
And I'm like, no, JK, like what I'm saying is there is a humanity in all of us that I'm asking you to see, that if you forced us to be men like, none of us would be happy. And that's what I'm asking you to see. So it was a very tough few days on Twitter. Yeah, I can imagine.

00:17:51:20 - 00:18:08:21
Unknown
So I think it's important because I really appreciate what you do because you're trying to show, you know, not just the yeah, I guess you're being the example. Right. Or and it's unfortunate that we all have to kind of be ambassadors sometimes. But I like to try to be the ambassador for, you know, liberalism and show that it isn't just progressives ism.

00:18:08:21 - 00:18:31:17
Unknown
Right? That's not what leftist politics is all about. I myself find myself as well, more of an establishment figure these days, a little bit more centrist in some ways. But, you know, that's that's it's definitely not what your typical progressive might be. And it kind of surprises some of my right leaning friends now. So I would say, do you see some voices kind of emerging behind the scenes in the Democratic Party other than yourself that are really trying to moderate it?

00:18:31:21 - 00:19:01:06
Unknown
And do you think they're going to be making progress as we go kind of through this postmortem in the, you know, the new Trump presidency? I, I really wish I could say yes. What I see is a man scramble for power behind the scenes. And that's not going to make people happy of me saying I was really happy after the election, because a bunch of really high level people in the party got together and were like, well, what does our trans message need to be like?

00:19:01:06 - 00:19:33:00
Unknown
I think there's a really good argument that we lost this election, from having a really extreme message on trans stuff that things I don't agree with. And I think the party, what I saw at first was us really sitting down to having some difficult conversations about that. And now it seems to be just very tepid that there's a quality to the Democratic Party from the inside, where it's very much, you don't want to be the nail that gets the hammer.

00:19:33:00 - 00:19:52:11
Unknown
So everyone is very, very, cautious to make decisions. And I think that's what you're seeing right now. So I hope we have some leadership that will step up. But it's frankly not what I've seen so far. Do you think that they're just trying to do, like, a wait and see and kind of allow Trump to maybe make some missteps and then play off of that?

00:19:52:11 - 00:20:10:17
Unknown
Or do you think it, as you said, it's just this power scramble and everyone's just kind of, you know, waiting for the opportune time to seize it? I think that's it. But isn't that the wrong like tactic, like just waiting for Trump to do some stupid things, which I assume he will like, is, does this really get our party anywhere?

00:20:10:17 - 00:20:32:23
Unknown
It does. Running on the idea Trump bad like we've been doing this since 2016. Is this helping our party? Is this what we need to focus on? I think the Democratic Party has no excuse for having lost this election. You know, I'm sorry, Charles, if you're a Trump guy, I'm just voicing my opinion. That's right. I think they bungled it up.

00:20:32:23 - 00:20:50:06
Unknown
I was telling Mike up until the week of the election that. Right, right. This is a throwaway. No, wait. Of course it is. Of course this. I think Trump is awful. The fact that we couldn't, the fact that the American people like us even less than him, like that's the moment that the bartender's throwing you out of the bar.

00:20:50:08 - 00:21:14:05
Unknown
And you need to understand you've got a drinking problem. And why did we lose this? Fringe trans politics have gotten, given the Republicans everything they need to attack people like me. Even when his policies don't help people like me. You know, we lost because, working class people don't associate the Democratic Party for standing for their interests anymore.

00:21:14:07 - 00:21:37:19
Unknown
And frankly, despite losing ro, you know, abortion is not the only issue that women care about, being able to afford childcare or groceries. You know, there's a whole host of whole bread and butter issues that are feminist issues that the Democratic Party just no longer has answers for. So, we can spend the next four years attacking Trump.

00:21:37:19 - 00:21:55:13
Unknown
And I'm sure a lot of us well, I'm far more interested in building a brand for the Democrats that is relatable and insoluble politically. So I think that's unnecessary. I'm going to steal the microphone one more time, and then I'll throw it back to Cooper. You good? Mike. Yeah, I love your questions. So. So this one is, interesting to me.

00:21:55:15 - 00:22:16:18
Unknown
Why do you think it is that Republicans are more successful in their messaging despite not having the legislative accomplishments their constituency is expecting? So like my my example here is that many of the people who are dissatisfied with, you know, quote unquote, what Biden did were not realizing that it wasn't some executive order. This was legislation that was passed through Congress.

00:22:16:19 - 00:22:34:21
Unknown
You know, Mike Johnson's Congress, might I remind a lot of folks, a lot of these bills and the funding to Ukraine, etc., that people are dissatisfied happened because of Mike Johnson. Why can the Republicans not deliver a lot on their legislative agendas, whereas the Democrats are held far more accountable for it? What do you think that is?

00:22:34:23 - 00:22:58:02
Unknown
So I, I didn't really understand this until, you I started being an executive director and doing a lot of polling. And I don't mean this arrogantly, but I'm just going to say it anyway. I think people like us really overestimate how much the American people follow politics. I'm not a sports girl. I can tell you one fact about, what is our team here?

00:22:58:02 - 00:23:26:17
Unknown
The Patriots? I don't watch too much sports falling there myself like they do. I couldn't tell you who are quarterback is I. I would struggle to tell you any past quarterback right now today you do not want to know who your quarterback is okay. That's like my point is like I just don't follow that. And you know, if you take me to a game, I'll pay attention and know enough about football to like, draw some conclusions and make some decisions.

00:23:26:19 - 00:23:48:02
Unknown
But I just don't follow it. And that's the way that the American, a lot of a huge swath of American voters are that they will the election will come up and Logan make their decision that week, but they're not tuned into all these legislative accomplishments. They don't know all the storylines. It's a really vibes based feeling who is standing for me.

00:23:48:02 - 00:24:06:03
Unknown
And, you know, we're just completely failing that in my view. Well, my mom say her team is Jacksonville Jaguars because she likes the leopard print and the, teal color. So there's that. Imagine showing up at the voting booth that day with that information. Sure. So you said in the beginning of the episode that you were a feminist.

00:24:06:05 - 00:24:27:23
Unknown
Of course. Is that different than being a trans rights activist? And I'm actually in this earnestly. I actually don't understand it because I understand how someone like JK Rowling, who is an outspoken Terf, could be against trans people, right? But then a feminist. So can you explain to me maybe your position on how can we fill both of those buckets at the same time?

00:24:28:01 - 00:24:53:04
Unknown
Well, I don't think feminist. I don't think feminism is incompatible with trans. Like, I understand, like, yeah, I of course I'm a natal male, but as I go about my life, my chromosomes are not what determines how people interact with me. You know, I think of myself as a trans woman, and most people just treat me as a system, like they just it just doesn't come up.

00:24:53:06 - 00:25:14:21
Unknown
So, you know, when I'm thinking about, issues like, I don't personally need abortion access, but I think every woman needs the right to control her own body and her own destiny in the same way that I do. I think this is very light when it comes to, issues like child care or having fair opportunities at work.

00:25:14:23 - 00:25:36:07
Unknown
I don't see where trans women are the enemies, that we very much understand how structural, oppression can exist. So I, I from my point of view, I would say being a Terf is the anti-feminist position. Interesting. But I think I agree with you, and it sounds like being those characteristics just means being a compassionate, empathetic person, which is good.

00:25:36:07 - 00:25:54:08
Unknown
Yeah, but but actually I want to bring it back now. So the Democrat Party and you even said that they have pushed it so far that now you don't even agree with some of the stuff that they're pushing. But what you've explained now that really it's I want to go about my life and have the same rights or the same kind of respect that any other woman would have.

00:25:54:10 - 00:26:13:17
Unknown
Now the Republicans almost have capitalized. Now, there's definitely the far right element where they throw vitriol, which is not acceptable, but it's almost that they've kind of nailed this one in by not talking about it too much, by if you were a right wing politician, you maybe don't even want to say anything about it. Make it a non-issue.

00:26:13:17 - 00:26:33:12
Unknown
Don't talk about abortion hundred percent. I went 20 years without talking about being trans. I didn't come out until like four months ago and I was like, I ran for Congress. I didn't mention it. I went through Gamergate. I didn't mention it. You're not going to tell you, some people didn't figure out I was trans or got through my entire biography and raised some questions.

00:26:33:12 - 00:26:59:10
Unknown
I just didn't talk about it because I wanted to be like, I transitioned to go live my life to be a activist, right? The problem is that the trans rights movement has gotten so extreme. If we don't have some damned adults like leading this movement, we're going to lose everything. I legitimately wonder if I'm going to have access to HRT, which I need to live by the end of the Trump administration.

00:26:59:10 - 00:27:22:16
Unknown
I wonder if my marriage is going to be legal. You know, there there's a lot of stuff that we're really on the wrong course for. So I fully agree with you. There are two schools of thought with, trans politics. You have what I would call gender ideology. So the gender ideology is this non-binary project. It's saying you can self ID your gender.

00:27:22:18 - 00:27:46:20
Unknown
It's saying like, yeah, you need to announce your pronouns and all this, this silly stuff, and you have what I would call integrations. You know, I transitioned to integrate, become the closest version of a woman I could be and go about my life. I had a health care issue. It completely ruined my life. I sought health care in my life got much better.

00:27:46:22 - 00:28:08:01
Unknown
I think like there's not anyone else in the trans movement willing to stand up and say, yeah, gender is not a construct. You know, gender dysphoria is a medical condition, and we need to treat it that way. If you don't have gender dysphoria, you're not trans. That's a very unpopular thing to say in, in progressive circles.

00:28:08:01 - 00:28:27:23
Unknown
But I think it's the playbook that got us our rights. I think it's interesting because it's, as you tying back to what you said before, the American electorate is not as tied in as punditry likes to believe that they are. And I think digestible of a message is probably most important. And I think it's great what you do because you are that simplified example.

00:28:27:23 - 00:28:49:02
Unknown
Like you said, I'm just trying to fully integrate. I'm not trying to be this activist right. It's not about the identity politics. Perhaps I guess that's the biggest problem here, right? Is it's easy to stereotype when you have such maximalist policies, right? I mean, Kamala Harris was, you know, lampooned as supporting, sex changes for immigrant prisoners and things like that.

00:28:49:02 - 00:29:07:21
Unknown
But I didn't see that anywhere on our, you know, policy, you know, agenda. But it's easy to mischaracterize, I should say, the other party when you have those maximalist policies. So so I guess your position, like, can I push back on you by all means, please, because I don't agree with you on this. And this is a weakness in the Democratic Party.

00:29:07:23 - 00:29:41:04
Unknown
What happened was some fringe, progressive gender like ideologies, right? Were working for Glatt or ACLU or any of these organizations have been ideologically captured. And then the Democrats came to kiss the ring of that organization. In that clip, there was a famous television commercial. You've got a trans woman there, no voice training, no real effort to pass sitting there on stage, going, do you support and giving the most extreme policies possible?

00:29:41:06 - 00:30:10:07
Unknown
And what did our party do? We went along with that because the, the, the gut instinct of the Democratic Party is to people, please. That's our fundamental nature. And we gave them the clips to utterly destroy us. So there's a two way street of thought. You've got completely unserious political activists trying to push the public policy to a stupid point that no American is ever going to support.

00:30:10:09 - 00:30:37:09
Unknown
If you ask the American people, Brianna, Will wants to go to a doctor and get health care and take that risk herself and pay for that surgery herself, do you support her being able to do that and live her life? That answers 100% yes. If you're saying this huge immigration problem, they're going to come through the system. If they claim to be like trans, we're going to give them vaginoplasty for $30,000 a pop.

00:30:37:09 - 00:31:00:20
Unknown
No, no one's going to agree with that. It doesn't help like American trans women. So I, I really don't agree with you. I think that unfortunately, the Democratic Party has adopted some really extreme trans views without thinking about it. I think they assume that every single civil rights struggle is just a copy of the 1964 civil rights struggle.

00:31:00:20 - 00:31:18:10
Unknown
It's very not that there could be unique issues at play here. I think you touched on as well. Another big weakness in our party is the immigration issue, right? To you know, we were so worried about this Latino vote, and we even tried to push about how Puerto Ricans are going to be so offended now because of that off color joke that now this election is in the bag.

00:31:18:10 - 00:31:38:01
Unknown
And to everyone's surprise, on the left, not many to the right is that, you know, they're not all monolithic. You know, they can take a joke. And, you know, a lot of them still voted for Trump regardless. So that's right. I think, I think that's another issue in our party is, is we can surround immigration. Do you see that all that conversation or policy is changing anyway?

00:31:38:03 - 00:32:21:11
Unknown
I don't know. Again, it's you kind of house in courage because look at the immigration issue. This bothers me as a feminist. You know, there is the male sex trafficking going on, right? Like like trafficking in woman for sex slavery is vastly more profitable than fentanyl. Like this is a huge issue. Like and so obviously that border has got to be secured like this before you get into the, the the work issues or the the drug smuggling or any of the terrorism threat, you know, before you get to any of this, the Democrats should have been there with the Republicans every step of the way, demanding serious public policy on this.

00:32:21:12 - 00:32:42:13
Unknown
What did we do? We are afraid someone's going to call us racist. And we did nothing and kept our mouth shut. And immigration was one of the top issues that the American people voted on. I'm sorry. The border, any country has to keep its border secure. And it doesn't mean I hate Latino people, doesn't mean I hate Mexicans.

00:32:42:13 - 00:33:05:05
Unknown
It just means we need an orderly process to figure out when people come to this country. So let's get that done with the Republicans. It's insane that we won't do this. Well, we talk about it a lot on the show, how the infighting is keeping their jobs alive. You know, people in those halls of chamber or their chambers where they get the insider info and make even more money and speaking deals, actually unpopular opinion I had.

00:33:05:05 - 00:33:20:21
Unknown
I, I've been telling people I think we should increase the pay of these politicians, let them let them make a half a million or more, as long as they can't do that other stuff that takes them away from their job. I want to go back to the last topic. I just finished reading a book. I actually have like 20 pages left, but it's, Pete Hegseth.

00:33:20:21 - 00:33:43:22
Unknown
I got it for Christmas, and he's been tapped to be the the, Secretary of Defense. And in his book, tough is an interesting word to use their tax. Okay. Hi, guys. My beer tab. I'm sorry about this drinking problem. Oh, well, anyway, I was going to say his book is very full of rhetoric. It was a little bit challenging for me to read because it was almost like an amalgamation of all of his tweets.

00:33:44:03 - 00:34:05:16
Unknown
But one of the things that he mentioned was kind of what Mike was touching on before, and I'd like to get your stance on it, Brianna. He was saying that the military has such low recruitment lately that they literally came out with a plan to advertise paid for gender transition surgeries, in exchange for enlistment. And I'm wondering if that would be similar to what you were just kind of describing as saying, hold on.

00:34:05:16 - 00:34:32:06
Unknown
This maybe goes a little bit further than what we're trying to accomplish here. Well, I don't know, like what is the Army recruitment bonus? It is what, $30,000 nowadays if you're going to give someone like a vaginoplasty, that's 30,000. How fast is going to be 30,000 like that doesn't seem insane to me to to say to someone, if you want some health care, come serve your country will, will will give you a pat there.

00:34:32:08 - 00:34:53:21
Unknown
I actually this is like Charles. This is where I would really love to say we need your help. We need conservatives help. The reason trans people are so neurotic and unfocused right now is because we don't have a job. We don't have a direction. All these progressive ideas are not giving us any pathway to live our life and to be successful.

00:34:53:23 - 00:35:19:11
Unknown
And all the normal, happy trans women I know are the ones that have jobs. So, I mean, what's better for you than a trans woman like, you know, stays unemployed and tweets nonsense all day of fortune harassing people or that she goes and serves her country and get some health care and learn some skills and learns how to integrate a little better.

00:35:19:17 - 00:35:36:01
Unknown
Like what's what's the argument against that? Help me understand. I guess the argument that he made in the book is following a procedure like that. It's weeks and weeks of recovery time. Oh God. Yeah, right. So you wouldn't exactly be an active duty as soon as you do that. In fact, I think he was explaining and I probably misquoting.

00:35:36:01 - 00:35:53:13
Unknown
I read through it quickly, but it was, like a out of a two year enlistment, I think almost one full year of that becomes medical leave. Then as soon as you join, no, I've done this is not that much like I. No. And I'm not arguing with you. I'm just explaining that this was one of the like, literally of maybe 7 or 8 chapters in the book.

00:35:53:13 - 00:36:15:12
Unknown
That was a full chapter of hers, of his. And to say that this was a ploy almost to increase the recruitment numbers. Now, you said that it's good and I agree with you. I think it would be great to have I, I understand, is politically dynamite. To be clear. I just, you know, that's my perspective on it. I think I think I think you'll find it interesting and I appreciate how you frame this as a health care issue because it becomes a qualifier.

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:43:12
Unknown
Right? Because then it's not just those who choose to self-identify because of how they currently feel, but folks who who really are on a journey because, you know, you can tell everyone firsthand it's a journey. It's not something that you just choose overnight and then that you can get overnight. And the recovery process is very lengthy. But one of our recent guests that we had had on was John Hoopes, who the hopes and sorry, who, although is certainly a liberal scholar, his father, believe it or not, was a very prominent conservative medical surgeon who performed.

00:36:43:12 - 00:36:58:16
Unknown
I think it was right. Correct me if I'm wrong, Cooper, but one of the first, you know, trans surgeries, you know, reassignment surgery. Yeah. So it's very interesting because that's exactly how he framed it, too. And this is where I think conservatives can get back to it is we treat it as a health care, you know, issue.

00:36:58:16 - 00:37:19:04
Unknown
We're helping an individual. It's not just something chose on a whim or, you know, as a fad, but that's the whole problem is framing. So, you know, I don't want to get into deep trans politics here. I'll try to keep it simple. But there are two warring factions in trans politics. You've got, you know, trans medalists, which are me.

00:37:19:06 - 00:37:38:09
Unknown
Yeah. I think this is a medical condition. I don't think it's a construct. I think you go into the DSM is literally a mental health disorder, and you go and get treatment and then you don't have that disorder because your gender is in alignment with your social role. And you go on with life. And that's one faction.

00:37:38:11 - 00:38:10:07
Unknown
I would say, unfortunately, the majority of trans people today, it's this gender ideology, binary created gender, you know, don't need this to be trans. Get rid of all medical gatekeeping. I when I transitioned like I wish people understood this was 20 years ago. Like there was a process that you had to go through. People don't understand. You had to have a job for a year to get vaginoplasty, a literal job.

00:38:10:09 - 00:38:32:11
Unknown
Today you can just go out and do whatever and get all this stuff instantly. And, you know, unfortunately, like for me, as a health care issue, most trans people do not agree with that today, which is insane to me. Yeah, I think there's a large contingency on the right that would say that you use the word mental health issue, right?

00:38:32:11 - 00:38:53:19
Unknown
And they would say, well, then let's do mental health treatment. And then there's the other contingency on the right that says or it's more libertarian likely that says, well, it's their body, it's their right. Let them do that. I think that's probably where I fall. And then the argument that starts is when they start talking about kids or putting it in schools, or what age is it appropriate to have this happen?

00:38:53:21 - 00:39:07:05
Unknown
Is that maybe what you referred to at the beginning of the episode? I said, oh, well, it's gone too far. And this might be one of those things. That's parts of that I do want to say, like Republic, you can say, oh, it's a mental health care issue. You gotta treat it. Do you like both of you event me?

00:39:07:05 - 00:39:29:19
Unknown
Do you think there's any version of me that's healthy like mentally healthy? That's not like this. That's not talking like this or living like this. Like this is who I am, right? I mean, that's this is about right. I mean, that's what that's how you frame it too, is it's, you know, it's this this wasn't like, decision because I want to it's I need to if I, if I don't pursue this life, it becomes unlivable.

00:39:29:19 - 00:39:45:16
Unknown
And, you know, my past life, you know, I think that's what most folks don't understand. And I think it's easier to criticize people you don't meet. So, again, I appreciate you for making yourself so visible because as you talked about on your most recent episode of your podcast is people do just want to lay low and they just want to integrate.

00:39:45:18 - 00:40:11:21
Unknown
But unfortunately, I don't think there's enough examples out there. So it becomes easier to mischaracterize folks when they don't have that in front of them. I knew something was really wrong with me when I was three years old, and I, I just, I, I was so my body just felt so off. And the older I got, the more I just felt with every part of my being that I cannot even begin to explain to you.

00:40:11:23 - 00:40:38:06
Unknown
There is not supposed to be a boy. And it was so traumatic to me and frustrating, and I tried so hard to fit it. I genuinely that I tried playing soccer and I like I they, they tried to force me to be a boy and it just made me so depressed to the point. Like, if you look at my wrist, you'll see like cuts on there from trying to kill myself.

00:40:38:06 - 00:41:02:22
Unknown
When I was 12, the instant I left home, I started doing every drug I could get my hands on and like, I don't know how I lived long enough to transition. I was a mess when I went to rehab. Like, the amount of drugs I was doing daily was just insane. And I got clean, I transitioned, and then instantly my life turns around.

00:41:03:00 - 00:41:26:22
Unknown
Five years later, I'm a national figure, and it's like this just, I understand it's weird for people, but I just. I cannot live as a man. I just I can't do it. I cannot fit in that social role. It makes my brain break. It makes me unhappy. Testosterone just makes my brain feel like it's short circuiting and estrogen just.

00:41:26:22 - 00:41:49:17
Unknown
It's like going from having a malfunctioning computer to 64 colors to to see the world with. It just agrees with me in ways I can barely explained. And I just wish more people understood. Like this isn't something I did for fun. It's something I did to survive. Well, thank you for sharing that for us. You know, I was it was very touching.

00:41:49:19 - 00:42:02:08
Unknown
And I think what's really important, and I don't want to transition away just because it was a heavy. No, but I think it's important because, as you said, you know, this was an important step for you to integrate and maybe you could talk to us a little bit about the success in your career and things that you're doing now.

00:42:02:08 - 00:42:19:03
Unknown
And, and maybe dig into a little bit about the nuts and bolts of what fundraising is, because, again, although most Americans are not tuned in to politics, we are we love the nitty gritty. So I think it's important, you know, we tell our audience a little bit about how fundraising actually works and, you know, how it is the lifeblood of campaigns.

00:42:19:05 - 00:42:44:11
Unknown
Oh, I get so I do it all with my PAC. I produce television commercials, I raise money, whether that's crowdfunding through, you know, through emails or, you know, calling individual high dollar donors and building relationships or, you know, getting, applying to foundations for specific programs. There's there's all kinds of ways to politically fundraise. So it's it's ultimately about trust.

00:42:44:12 - 00:43:06:10
Unknown
It's about relationships. One of the things I feel very strongly is if you want to drive somewhere, you need some gas in that car. So, you know, I just feel really like I enjoy this part of the job. It's fun for me to develop this relationships, and people think it's like, you know, you're you're talking to people, like, just trying to get that money from the.

00:43:06:15 - 00:43:33:04
Unknown
It's not like that at all. It's like you're talking to people. You're like, what's important to you? Like, we'll take the Israel issue, right? There's a lot of money out there right now to really support candidates that are pro-Israel, because there's a constituency that wants to see that represented in Congress. So, this is really my job is just going around and making friends all day and finding out where I'm aligned with people, if that makes sense.

00:43:33:06 - 00:44:00:03
Unknown
Does it, does I see in your bio that you also were supporter of the Green New Deal. That was a platform position for when you ran back then. Our feeling is it might cost a little bit too much money. No, I think, one of the things I've come to the conclusion on with the progressive movement. This is after spending a decade of my life, working on this is the not serious about public policy.

00:44:00:05 - 00:44:20:17
Unknown
So I can look at something like the Green New Deal and go, okay, I can see how this will take us in the right direction. The problem is, progressives are so divisive, we'll never get the Republicans to vote for it. And we're not going to get the Democrats to vote for it. So I just think, like iteration and working with Republicans is the way to go to this.

00:44:20:19 - 00:44:41:18
Unknown
Very interesting. I mean, I personally, in the last, I guess it was like five months ago, six months ago, removed the word Republican from my bio, which had been there on Twitter for many years. I didn't disassociate from the party, and I'm still a proud Republican, but I didn't want to have that monolithic label. And it almost seems to me like, are you thinking at all that you were separate from the Democratic Party?

00:44:41:20 - 00:45:04:18
Unknown
No, no. I respectfully like for a Republican, we can be friends, but Democrats are. Democrats are the ones that got me the rights I need to live. And generally speaking, like the Republican Party is home to trans folks and there's there's no issue that matters more to me than health care and access to HRT than being able to use the bathroom.

00:45:04:19 - 00:45:20:10
Unknown
Just go about my day. So fair enough, fair enough. Well, I'm on your side on this one. On it. So, I want to bring up, a little, to some tweets that you've been pushing out there recently in the Hill that you seem to be choosing to die on, walkable cities and how nobody wants them.

00:45:20:10 - 00:45:42:03
Unknown
Maybe you could tell a little bit, us about what's the. So, y'all know I collect Porsche? Absolutely. I do at least. Yeah. Okay. I grew up in Mississippi. I'm a car girl. I love my classic Porsches, so I, I just, I, I think like Walkable city is is one of these regressive things where they're always going like more bike lanes.

00:45:42:03 - 00:46:07:09
Unknown
Let's make everything walkable. I think at the end of the day, like, maybe these people just grew up in New York or California and don't know what it's like in Mississippi. There's no future Mississippi where it's walkable cities. I'm sorry y'all. I think also too is people think that bike lanes automatically create a walkable city, but they don't realize that there's this infrastructure and culture that's kind of has to be built into it, other than just a few bike lanes here or there that obstruct traffic.

00:46:07:09 - 00:46:28:13
Unknown
But we can we can leave that there. Then I was blinded to it. I lived in New York, in Queens with my wife for eight years before buying a house in the suburbs in Connecticut. And, you know, we would circle for parking for 40 minutes after a three hour drive home from the in-laws, and we would have to buy $150 worth of groceries, which is only two days worth, and you have to have at home three blocks with a dog in the snow.

00:46:28:19 - 00:46:51:05
Unknown
I mean, the second I pulled into my driveway and I was able to unload groceries from my trunk, you know, that was like, you don't even realize what you're missing. So, yeah, yeah, you need a car. I'm with you on that one. I, I'm just saying, like, I enjoyed living in DC as a staffer. Just saying, like, I would have to hike, like, through the snow and the rain, like, 4 or 5 blocks to go get coffee.

00:46:51:05 - 00:47:08:15
Unknown
If I was out. And then I have to come back to my apartment and do it, and it got like it was fun. I enjoyed being able to get as trashed as I wanted at the clubs and take the metro home. That was fun, but I just don't think most Americans are going to live this way. Right? Sorry.

00:47:08:17 - 00:47:27:04
Unknown
Pragmatically, yeah. It's just not functional in the grander scale of things like you've got kids, you've got kids, you think you're going to go every time you need some diapers here. Can I know about that? Because you're still in the city like I'm out, thank goodness. Yeah. Now it's it's brutal though having to do it. Yeah I I'm, I'm it's a car city though.

00:47:27:04 - 00:47:47:08
Unknown
I'm down in Miami by the way for perspective. So it's not a walkable city by any means. It's quite dangerous to get on your bicycle or on foot here. I would always recommend being in a car anyway. Listen. Hey, Brianna, where can people find you, your new podcast or on social media? Where can they connect with you? Yeah, my favorite place is unfortunately, Twitter, because I'm a, sycophant.

00:47:47:08 - 00:48:18:12
Unknown
Not not ex Twitter. It's always been Twitter. It will stay Twitter. If he stops dead naming his daughter, I will stop dead. Naming the social media. So there you go. I like that. Yeah, that. I'm primarily on Twitter. I really ask people to check out my show dog host. You know, it's it's I feel like there's really nothing out there with normal trans women with jobs and boyfriends and husbands and, you know, just to talk about this stuff in a real way.

00:48:18:12 - 00:48:38:18
Unknown
I mean, I assume you guys saw the show, like, what did you what did you think? Like just seeing, like, normal trans. Well, well, like, that's what I said is, is. No, it's it's exactly what you need to be doing is kind of breaking the stereotypes and not giving people an opportunity to mischaracterize and just show that you're just trying to live the life like everybody else and just get by, right?

00:48:38:18 - 00:48:54:04
Unknown
That's what we're all doing, is just trying to make it, you know? Yeah. And actually, you taught me the word right now. The integrated trans person, I didn't even know. In fact, when I was watching the whole cast, I was not sure. I was not sure if it was all for trans women. So that report, I guess. There there we go.

00:48:54:05 - 00:49:14:06
Unknown
So that's the goal. Is there a sneak peek into any future programing you got planned or any upcoming guests you want? We got some really big guests coming up. It's really good that, everybody wants to come on and have some more conversations about trans politics. So, it's really exciting to have, some of the biggest people, eager to work with us on this.

00:49:14:06 - 00:49:30:15
Unknown
Awesome. That's awesome. And congratulations. I, like you, filled that space, right. That was a void that was needed. And I believe that's what we're trying to do here as well. But that's why we're so grateful to have featured your voice here today. Understand a little about your story. And, Mike, is there anything else I missed? No, I think we finished on a perfect note.

00:49:30:15 - 00:49:56:21
Unknown
Like I said, go watchdog cast. That was the great last episode, and I'm looking forward to future upcoming ones. Amazing. We're arguing the temples booker this week. Lisa Elizabeth is hardcore conservative who does not think, transphobia and should have kids and oh boy, it got spaces. This should be very interesting then. Definitely. It's gone. Well, Malcolm, drag it out is the argument that what is the argument shouldn't have kids, that he doesn't have the nuclear family influence.

00:49:56:23 - 00:50:30:18
Unknown
I think that's it. Yeah. She's she's very, pro she doesn't believe in surrogacy or adoption and, you know, I think she didn't understand that. Skyler, has her original equipment and has a wife, so no surrogacy is involved. So right there, like, it does show the, you know, I know, I know family members and small mindedness, but it's just that people on the right maybe are hesitant to even look into it and understand that that's a possibility.

00:50:30:18 - 00:50:51:18
Unknown
Right? It didn't even click for that person that, oh, that could happen. You know, it's just strange that that doesn't that understanding doesn't exist yet. So I have this YouTube, I have this opinion until, you know, it affects me personally. And then I have to deal with in a different way is usually how I see it. So before we go, I would ask really directly, what is your opinion on trans stuff?

00:50:51:18 - 00:51:11:06
Unknown
Well, let's get into it. Well, how do you Charles, you're the Republican. What is your opinion? Trans people are trans women. Women in movie. I, I don't personally have a problem with the bathroom stuff or with, you know, I heard in your episode with Jake that sports was kind of the generally accepted, hey, maybe we should integrate this.

00:51:11:06 - 00:51:32:21
Unknown
So stupid. I I'm very torn on it. To be completely honest, I really am. It doesn't personally affect me. Right. Maybe it will affect my kids or my family one day, so I am interested in it. But I think that if I were to walk into a locker room and there was, right, I'm the man, I'm not the female to see, a trans woman walking.

00:51:33:01 - 00:51:49:13
Unknown
But if I were to see a trans man walk in, I maybe would give it a glance. But I think that my method is to be head down in the locker room anyway, you know, I don't really go to spa or get massages. That's where you maybe see locker room. I honestly, I don't know, I don't have a very strong position.

00:51:49:13 - 00:52:09:13
Unknown
I, I think, like, what you said before, if you were so unhappy that you couldn't continue day to day and this is now where you found happiness, then that's an outright positive. The thing that I guess is in the back of my head is, what if you go ahead and make that change and go through that process, but then you are not happy with the result?

00:52:09:16 - 00:52:23:11
Unknown
Yeah, right. And I suppose that could happen with just plastic surgery in general, right? You could have a nose job and not like it. But but this one seems a little bit more final. And especially when you start HRT and maybe you'll correct me. I don't know if you can get off it. Right. You go on those epic, you're on it for life.

00:52:23:16 - 00:52:39:12
Unknown
Can you detransition? Is that a thing? And that's what the right has pushed forward. The Detransition has to say, these are the stories we need to push. These are more prevalent than the suicides. Again, I don't know where the statistics lie, but but that would be what my thought is. It's a very right. They say this about suicide.

00:52:39:12 - 00:52:59:15
Unknown
It's a very permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem. But again, that's just my uninformed opinion. Okay. So let's go through this one at a time. You know, first of all, like the locker room issue is important because like, I, I hope I can just be honest. Like, I have a vagina, I vaginoplasty. I didn't want those parts.

00:52:59:15 - 00:53:23:10
Unknown
I was thrilled to get that surgery right. Not only because I enjoy dating men. So that that works out very nicely. But, you know, not all trans women do. One of the things has changed is I think probably most trans women nowadays are into with it, which. Okay, so because of that, a lot of them keep their penises.

00:53:23:12 - 00:53:43:22
Unknown
And I personally don't think, a woman should ever see a penis in a locker room. I think that's really inappropriate and gross and probably would make her feel unsafe. So, you know, I think that's where, you know, I mean, just being honest. I could go in the locker room. I don't think anyone would notice or care.

00:53:44:00 - 00:54:07:07
Unknown
But I think, like, the thing is, the community has changed. So, like, the good sense that we showed that if you didn't pass, you didn't go in those spaces. Those days are gone. And you do have people like the progressive messaging is you're entitled to the space. So they go in, they've got beards, they'll go in, you know, chest hair, original equipment, all that kind of stuff.

00:54:07:07 - 00:54:29:04
Unknown
So it is a problem. And it's a problem that the progressives have pushed as far as de transition is. This is another problem that the progressives have created, because when I went through the system, I'd have three months of therapy. And, you know, I had to go get letters and then have a doctor sign off on it for HRT.

00:54:29:04 - 00:54:49:11
Unknown
And I had to live for a while, you know, like there were a whole bunch of steps I had to go through with medical practice practitioners. And every step of the way. Charles, we want to transition today. Come on over. I'll take him on Planned Parenthood. We'll get you an anti androgens that day. That's pretty high estrogen. They've just completely short circuited it.

00:54:49:11 - 00:55:11:09
Unknown
So of course when do you do that. There are going to be more De transitions here. This doesn't work out for. So again like this is the problem is all these things are Republicans are saying they're true and they're a problem now because of the progressive policies. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well you mentioned that you had started this process at the age of 12.

00:55:11:11 - 00:55:30:12
Unknown
Obviously, you knew for me, I transition into my mid 20s, if I knew what I was back then, I actually I still watch my mom's estrogen back then. Oh gosh. Well that's not to say that you knew, but that would be my next question. Would to say when? When what is an age or when does it get to a point where it's, I must intervene, I must do this.

00:55:30:12 - 00:55:51:03
Unknown
This is the only option for me, right? And like, for example, in Oregon and I'm probably messing up my stats, but in Oregon a child could do it without parental consent at the age of 14, whereas in California I think it's a 16. They can begin to seek, HRT treatment. Right? I'm wondering if there's an age or is there a need to draw a line or, you know, what's your stance on that?

00:55:51:04 - 00:56:11:00
Unknown
Because that's another. When we talk about kids, we talk about schools. You're going to really rile up a lot of, right wingers for sure. So here or let me give you some context, because people are really confused on this. So the answer I'm going to give you is going to piss off everyone. So when I transitioned, the rates were male to female.

00:56:11:00 - 00:56:42:02
Unknown
People like me were the overwhelming majority. We I met, I think one FTM the entire time I transitioned. Today. Those numbers are flipped and the overwhelming majority of trans people are women or girls. They've decided that they're men and want to transition this is actually a much less studied phenomenon. I can show you like history books of Roman times, male to female transsexuals.

00:56:42:02 - 00:57:06:17
Unknown
Like castrating themselves to become priests like we have always existed. Boys want to be girls, but this, like, ftm thing is just less study. It is an entirely different phenomenon. And it's mixed up because like, I mean, you have I you've girlfriends and wives like you've talked to them like when you're developing and menstruating and all of that.

00:57:06:17 - 00:57:37:18
Unknown
Like there's you feel weird about your body. Like, of course there's a lot of like, pressure to their leave reasons to escape structural sexism. So here's what we know. The number these young girls that are deciding they're trans is through the roof. It's unprecedented in any generation. There's no scientific basis for explaining it. And I am of the opinion that the detransition rate for these girls is so sky high through the roof.

00:57:37:20 - 00:58:09:03
Unknown
We need to take them off the table. Just take it off the table. Testosterone is so powerful that they will end up passing just as well. If they start testosterone at 15 or 25, right? Just take it off the table. It's just too dangerous and we know too little about this. The problem that I have is looking at what is happening to the aftermath because like it is, it was very it made my life a lot harder.

00:58:09:03 - 00:58:35:14
Unknown
Having gone through male puberty. If you look at the DSM, like I even as a child, there's six criteria. I very easily hit every single six of them. There's no future where I was not going to grow up and be trans. And I told my parents that from a young age. So what I think we need to do is take our times off the table, which will take like 80% of the problem away.

00:58:35:16 - 00:59:04:20
Unknown
And I think we need to radically raise the standards for these children and say, look, it's not two hours of therapy. It is like two years of there, right, right, right. And in these extreme cases with suicidal ideation and a very long documented history, then we can keep a little window open for you for the extreme cases. And I'm talking kids that are exactly like I was trying to kill themselves at 12 years old.

00:59:04:22 - 00:59:22:19
Unknown
I think that makes sense to me. And to give everybody mental health care support. But it doesn't need to be all or nothing thinking here. We really can't have a nuanced public policy here. That's a very interesting point. In fact, I think you said everyone would disagree with you. Maybe Abigail Schrier would agree with you on that one.

00:59:23:00 - 00:59:41:13
Unknown
Is she? Well, yeah. Every once with her in a couple days. Yes. That's cool. I was going to ask if you've read her book. I haven't, but I saw her on Rogan and I was very interested that that social contagion in a way. Right. And I think that's demonstrated 100% true for, like there's a social contagion going on with every office right now.

00:59:41:13 - 01:00:02:07
Unknown
I 100% believe that, like, something's changed about the community. Yeah, it just is so different. Would you say it's just probably moving with the Overton window, and it's an unfortunate product of the times, right? This, I guess, you know, post-modernism, right? The what is the meaning of everything? It's this kind of the challenges we face as a society.

01:00:02:12 - 01:00:18:22
Unknown
But I appreciate you having these honest conversations because this is, you know, similar with race relations in our country. It really boils down to a lot of us just not having the hard conversations that we need to have. Right. So we appreciate your voice. Like yours, of course. Thanks, Mike. Sorry to keep you up. No, no. Absolutely not.

01:00:18:22 - 01:00:43:23
Unknown
This. Listen, this is what we were here for, so we appreciate you for digging that up. Yeah. All right, so, you said your website, you said your handle, all that kind of stuff. Doll cast. Go check them out. Brianna Wu, not Brianna. Brianna, thank you for joining us. It was our pleasure. And this has been elevated thoughts.